2020 US Presidential Election

[najaB]

That is fake news. Yes, he has a ridiculous turn of phrase. No, he wasn't making that comparison.

Trump elaborated on that point later Monday during an interview on "The Ingraham Angle" on Fox News, during which he said police are "under siege."

"They can do 10,000 great acts, which is what they do, and one bad apple – or a choker, you know, a choker, they choke – shooting the guy in the back many times," Trump told host Laura Ingraham.

"I mean, couldn't you have done something different? Couldn't you have wrestled him?" Trump asked, wondering how the tragedy could have been avoided. "You know, I mean, in the meantime he might have been going for a weapon and, you know, there's a whole big thing there."

"But they choke, just like in a golf tournament, they miss a 3-foot putt," Trump said as Ingraham, one his staunchest supporters in the news media, cut him off.

USA Today
It certainly reads to me that he was.

 

[mmh]

USA Today
It certainly reads to me that he was.

I also read that article, which is why I knew you'd not quoted the next sentence of it. Why is that?


Of course it reads that he was making that comparison if you start from a position that he's awful rather than someone with that aforementioned ridiculous turn of phrase and a tendency to be crass.

The quotes will have lost him zero votes. Those outraged have long been outraged and weren't voting for him anyway.

 

[najaB]

I also read that article, which is why I knew you'd not quoted the next sentence of it. Why is that?

Because I'm not going to quote the whole article, anyone who wants to read the whole thing can follow the link. What he says after being prompted isn't a reflection of what he actually thinks. The fact that he even made the analogy shows how his mind works.

The quotes will have lost him zero votes. Those outraged have long been outraged and weren't voting for him anyway.

And I didn't think it would. As I said, his base is going to vote for him no matter what. The people who hate him aren't going to vote for him, no matter what. But, as I said things like that aren't going to endear him to people who haven't made their minds up yet.

 

[nlogax]

Standard Trumpism. Make a clumsy, crass analogy of some heinous current event with something fairly irrelevant and then, depending on interviewer, be guided back on track.

All the rage makes no odds. Trump's Teflon nature is one of his biggest plays.

 

[edwin_m]

It doesn't help that regardless of what they think of Trump, they treat those who voted for him with contempt... a bit like how anyone who voted Leave here were written off as xenophobic reactionaries.

In both cases the voters had a genuine sense of grievance which hadn't been addressed by the (national) government of the day. In both cases what they voted for made things worse.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

In both cases the voters had a genuine sense of grievance which hadn't been addressed by the (national) government of the day. In both cases what they voted for made things worse.

In both cases, the reaction from the political establishment was found wanting. The big difference was that while the Republican Party were initially just as appalled by Trump as the Conservative party was by Brexit. However for the most part the Republicans got on board pretty quickly. For them it was still a win even if it wasn't the one they'd hoped for.

See also the "Liberal elites" (the Hollywood "blue checks" on Twitter) engaging in voter-shaming both post-2016 and in the current campaign.
People voted for both Trump and Brexit for a multitude of reasons, some of which might be considered unsavoury. However in both cases the response from those both in power and in opposition failed to address any of those concerns- even the causes that weren't motivated by xenophobia or hatred.

 

[birchesgreen]

Well it doesn't really help that Trump's more sensible or moderate supporters seem rather quiet and low-key, but the genuine nutcases, conspiracy theorists and white supremacists get plenty of attention.

 

[mmh]

Wisconsin was one of the crucial states that Trump won last time; H.Clinton's refusal to campaign there was seen as helping Trump to narrowly get it. Now Biden seemingly won't go near the place, presumably because he's terrified of being put on the spot regarding anything to do with events in Kenosha, whereas Trump's going to visit to rabble rouse, hoping to turn every white voter into a racist. I can only hope he's unsuccessful and it backfires on him.

I heard today that he plans to go to Wisconsin either late this week or early next

Confirmed today he'll be in Kenosha tomorrow. Allegedly not going to take press questions, although I don't have a quotable source for that.

 

[najaB]

Confirmed today he'll be in Kenosha tomorrow. Allegedly not going to take press questions, although I don't have a quotable source for that.

He'd be best not to make it a press event. Go take a walk through downtown, meet the mayor (publicly) and Jacob and/or his family (privately) and then get the heck out of there.

 

[nlogax]

The initial presidential debate is tonight at 9pm Eastern / 2am UK time. I'm fascinated by how this will pan out. We all know how bad Trump is in debates - he just uses bluster and lies to power through questioning, but looking back on his previous performances Biden is no Christopher Hitchens either. What are your expectations from this initial debate?

 

[najaB]

What are your expectations from this initial debate?

I expect Biden to hold back rather than come out swinging and just repeatedly jab Trump over his taxes (and what that reveals about him and his fitness for office) and the Trump administration's response to Covid-19.

 

[LSWR Cavalier]

The Guardian reports that Sleepy Joe is making the same mistake as Clinton, concentrating on the wrong groups
I can well believe it
Would not surprise me if trump got back in with a real majority

Apparently he paid little in federal taxes, not read about how much he paid in state or other taxes, could have been a lot
..
'People do not like getting free stuff, they do like getting cheap stuff', attributed to the PotUS

 

[ainsworth74]

Apparently he paid little in federal taxes, not read about how much he paid in state or other taxes, could have been a lot
..
'People do not like getting free stuff, they do like getting cheap stuff', attributed to the PotUS

For further discussion on the taxes please see this existing thread

 

[TheBigD]

If anyone is thinking of watching the "highlights" of the first debate, there aren't many. Totally underwhelming. A uncharacteristic low key performance by Trump, and Biden managed to get through it without any major gaffs. I doubt it will have swayed anybody to change their mind about either candidate.

 

[nlogax]

Trump completely followed through on those expected tactics but that was an even more unsavory 90 minutes than I expected. Trump telling the Proud Boys to 'stand back and stand by' was a real low point in a sea of interruptions and name-calling. Chris Wallace shouldn't be a moderator in Trump debates..he just gets steamrollered and ignored. There's too much angst between them.

 

[edwin_m]

Chris Wallace shouldn't be a moderator in Trump debates..he just gets steamrollered and ignored. There's too much angst between them.

Wallace was highly praised for moderating a previous presidential debate. I suspect Trump would treat any moderator similarly unless they just rolled over and gave him exactly what he wanted. Pretty much as he does with everyone else.

 

[SteveM70]

Why on earth couldn’t they have given the moderator a couple of mute buttons?

 

[Tetchytyke]

Why on earth couldn’t they have given the moderator a couple of mute buttons?

Because it's about entertainment. It's been the issue all along, Trump is Box Office for the news channels.

 

[SteveM70]

Because it's about entertainment. It's been the issue all along, Trump is Box Office for the news channels.

If that’s what counts as entertainment, just have a live broadcast of Bible Joe haranguing shoppers on a Saturday morning

 

[ld0595]

I'm mid way through the debate and simply amazed that these two are the best America could put up. Biden probably came off slightly better, but I can't imagine either swayed many undecided voters.

 

[najaB]

I doubt it will have swayed anybody to change their mind about either candidate.

Given that voting has already started, the debates aren't about changing minds - they're more about the undecided voter. And by that measure the debate was a complete train wreck for Trump: he displayed nothing that would convince someone who wasn't already in his camp to cast their vote in his direction. He answered few of the questions he was posed, and even where he did almost everything he said was a repeat of a lie that he's told previously.

Biden's performance didn't set the world alight, but he definitely was the more appealing (less repulsive?) of the two.

 

[nlogax]

Biden's performance didn't set the world alight, but he definitely was the more appealing (less repulsive?) of the two.

Two old men, one of whom is fundamentally decent and the other not so much, using that difference to his advantage with constant bulldozing and interruptions. It was unpleasant at best, possibly a new national low point at worst.

Wallace was highly praised for moderating a previous presidential debate. I suspect Trump would treat any moderator similarly unless they just rolled over and gave him exactly what he wanted. Pretty much as he does with everyone else.

There's something hanging in the air after Trump's recent interview by Wallace and I think it was evident last night - Trump himself even vaguely referenced it. Steve Scully from C-SPAN is moderating the next one. He has a slightly different manner and may be more effective in keeping both candidates in line a fortnight from now. Good taste of what to expect from this clip.

 

[ainsworth74]

Steve Scully from C-SPAN

Ah the most patient man in America!

Some of the clips of him dealing with random callers into that show! Good grief he has to have the constitution of a saint to be able to do that job

 

[Tetchytyke]

Given that voting has already started, the debates aren't about changing minds - they're more about the undecided voter.

I wouldn't even say that, they're more about getting their core voter base out to vote. That's why Trump's repellent behaviour is effective, he's not after swing voters, he's making sure his core vote of white supremacists get out to vote. Why else would he so deliberately reference the Proud Boys?

This is clearly the tactic. Again Trump's team are using dark adverts on Facebook to target Biden voters, but they're not trying to persuade them to vote Trump, they're trying to persuade them not to vote at all. It's what they did in 2016 with such success.

What sunk Clinton was her voters didn't get out, and that's because the social media targeting in 2016 worked.

I hope Trump's outright repellence galvanises the Biden voter base. Even if Biden isn't great, he's not Trump.

 

[Cowley]

Well I’ve just been listening to it, still got about quarter of an hour to go but it is fairly appalling to listen to.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Because it's about entertainment. It's been the issue all along, Trump is Box Office for the news channels.

You just named that tune in 1. Don’t forget, whatever people think of DT he has quite a bit of relevant Television entertainment experience and the media play along.

I'm mid way through the debate and simply amazed that these two are the best America could put up. Biden probably came off slightly better, but I can't imagine either swayed many undecided voters.

Agreed

 

[ComUtoR]

What sunk Clinton was her voters didn't get out, and that's because the social media targeting in 2016 worked.

She "won" the popular vote by " 2,868,686" She was sunk by the "USS Electoral college"

 

[nlogax]

She "won" the popular vote by " 2,868,686" She was sunk by the "USS Electoral college"

Trump social media campaigns targeted key battleground states where those valuable Electoral College votes reside.

 

[edwin_m]

Trump social media campaigns targeted key battleground states where those valuable Electoral College votes reside.

Possibly. As with all these debates about electoral systems, nobody can really know who would have voted differently under a different one. But the fact remains that more people preferred Hillary than preferred Trump.

It may not be a coincidence that the two presidents in recent history elected despite losing the popular vote (W Bush and Trump) are also probably the two worst presidents in recent history.

 

[nlogax]

Possibly. As with all these debates about electoral systems, nobody can really know who would have voted differently under a different one. But the fact remains that more people preferred Hillary than preferred Trump.

It may not be a coincidence that the two presidents in recent history elected despite losing the popular vote (W Bush and Trump) are also probably the two worst presidents in recent history.

There was certainly an Oxford University study that pointed to the social media trends in swing states versus strong Dem or Republican states, how much sway this actually had at voting stations is hard to ascertain - but Trump won it in those key states and I would have to assume this element was partially responsible.

I'm finding it difficult to grasp how bad things have become that much of the media now looks to GWB as some respectable and responsible morally upright statesman. This is not the GWB I remember from my years living in the US under his presidency.