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22nd February - Roadmap out of the pandemic, lifting of restrictions.

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DelayRepay

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This is not an attitude I can agree with.

Viruses spread by today's behaviour will cause an acceleration of cases, and deaths possibly, and cause another lockdown.

Being libertarian about 9am boozing means being responsible for future restrictions.
The only problem with this statement is that people (including me) said the same thing when restrictions were relaxed last summer. But the relaxing of restrictions does not seem to have caused the 'second wave', as months passed between relaxations and the uplift in cases.

People said the same about schools re-opening on 8 March, but six weeks later there's no evidence of it causing any significant problems.
 
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PR1Berske

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The reopening of schools had to be reversed after one day because of case numbers.
 

Darandio

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The reopening of schools had to be reversed after one day because of case numbers.

In January. In the middle of winter. When cases were already at over 50,000 per day.

As noted above, remind us what happened last summer?
 

Bantamzen

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This is not an attitude I can agree with.

Viruses spread by today's behaviour will cause an acceleration of cases, and deaths possibly, and cause another lockdown.

Being libertarian about 9am boozing means being responsible for future restrictions.
Funny how the reopening of pubs last summer didn't lead to an instant surge eh?
 

DelayRepay

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The reopening of schools had to be reversed after one day because of case numbers.
That's not strictly true - they were re-opening after a holiday, not a lockdown. And the reversal was because of the case numbers in general, not specifically linked to schools.

The point I was making was that the schools most recently re-opened in early March. If that was going to cause a problem, we would see it in the numbers by now - this is exactly why the government have a five week gap between the roadmap milestones.
 

Ediswan

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this is exactly why the government have a five week gap between the roadmap milestones.
One of the few cases where science has been applied by the government. Three weeks to allow any effect to show up, one week to analyse the figures, one week notice to businsses of changes.
 

Jamiescott1

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This is not an attitude I can agree with.

Viruses spread by today's behaviour will cause an acceleration of cases, and deaths possibly, and cause another lockdown.

Being libertarian about 9am boozing means being responsible for future restrictions.

Is this meant to be a serious comment?
 

cuccir

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Yes.

In ordinary circumstances, nobody here would be celebrating people drinking at 9am. We shouldn't be doing so now.

People can drink when they want. It's probably a problem if you find yourself drinking at 9am regularly, but on holidays, festivals, birthdays, celebrations, events, it can be perfectly normal behaviour. Today's drinkers clearly fall into the 'events' category.

There is no modelling which suggests that today's openings will have significant impacts on cases, hospitalizations or deaths, given current vaccination rates and other measures still in place.
 

roversfan2001

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Yes.

In ordinary circumstances, nobody here would be celebrating people drinking at 9am. We shouldn't be doing so now.
Why not? I'm a football fan, pre-Covid I was travelling up and down the country every other week and 9am would be considered a late start drinking-wise.

Today is quite clearly a special occasion for people - pubs are an integral part of our society and have been shut for a very long time. Round here, pubs haven't been able to serve a pint on its own since 16th October. People want to get out and support an industry that has been dragged to its knees by these restrictions. The hospitality industry has been scapegoated from the start and needs all the custom it can get. Certain pubs clearly saw a demand for morning drinking and opened accordingly.

The coronaphobes might not like it, but the country is opening up again and returning to normality. Either get behind it or get left behind. The era of pandering to the permanently terrified is coming to an end.
 

Bantamzen

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Best not mention that I've been know to have a couple of glasses of wine at 6am in an Leeds/Bradford lounge whilst waiting for an early morning flight to Spain, or once I was drinking a beer and eating pizza at 5am at LAX waiting for a flight to Hawai'i.... :D
 

roversfan2001

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This is really offensive to those around the world who have lost loved ones to the disease.
No it isn't. Safe to assume you're one of the aforementioned group and therefore letting your experience influence your mindset, rather than letting the actual figures speak for themself.

No one is forcing you to join in with society. Just don't expect everyone to hide behind their sofa with you.
 

NorthOxonian

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This is really offensive to those around the world who have lost loved ones to the disease.
As someone who has lost loved ones to the disease, no it isn't. The virus is horrible but we can't just put society on hold forever. Because while I know people who have lost loved ones to the virus, I also know people who have had their lives destroyed by restrictions. Elderly relatives who have seen a year of isolation cause horrific cognitive decline. Neighbours who have lost everything after their workplaces collapsed. Friends who have ended up with addictions or mental health problems. We can't abandon those people, just because we're myopically focusing on the virus.
 

PR1Berske

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No it isn't. Safe to assume you're one of the aforementioned group and therefore letting your experience influence your mindset, rather than letting the actual figures speak for themself.

No one is forcing you to join in with society. Just don't expect everyone to hide behind their sofa with you.
Calling it "pandering" when restrictions are trying to keep people safe from a deadly disease is offensive.
 

roversfan2001

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Calling it "pandering" when restrictions are trying to keep people safe from a deadly disease is offensive.
254 deaths within 28 days of a positive test reported in the last 7 days. The average (2015-2019) number of deaths in that week from all causes is over 10,000. Do we ban smoking because it causes lung cancer? Or driving because people are killed in RTAs? We can not and will not keep pandering to people who seem quite happy to watch the country collapse as long as they collect 80% if their wage for sitting at home and watching Netflix.

Everyone who is vulnerable (and they account for 99% of all Covid deaths, for the record), have received an incredibly effective vaccine. There is no foundation for any of these destructive restrictions to continue.
 

kez19

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Yes.

In ordinary circumstances, nobody here would be celebrating people drinking at 9am. We shouldn't be doing so now.

Heard of in house drinking and the follow up hangover?


Heard of alcoholics they drink anytime of the day too (don’t grudge them either)

Jeez we live under a shelter run for cover!

Calling it "pandering" when restrictions are trying to keep people safe from a deadly disease is offensive.

Deadly... cancer is deadly for some but lest we forget then why bother eh? COVID is priority over everything else out there

Pandering isn’t offensive since when was such a word such a snowflake word, what world do you live in the real or fantasy world?

Restrictions to keep us safe? Really you actually believe that? No wonder the likes of Piers can bugger off to Antigua meanwhile I can’t get to Sweden to see family but of course I get arrested for that and Piers a slapped wrist!

Aah once more restrictions are basically a us and them and just to add further divide us as a society, jeez what did we do before all this began? Life was normal but we have people like you throwing weight around at telling us what we should and shouldn’t do, hopefully karma will indeed bite back on you.
 
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Class 33

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254 deaths within 28 days of a positive test reported in the last 7 days. The average (2015-2019) number of deaths in that week from all causes is over 10,000. Do we ban smoking because it causes lung cancer? Or driving because people are killed in RTAs? We can not and will not keep pandering to people who seem quite happy to watch the country collapse as long as they collect 80% if their wage for sitting at home and watching Netflix.

Everyone who is vulnerable (and they account for 99% of all Covid deaths, for the record), have received an incredibly effective vaccine. There is no foundation for any of these destructive restrictions to continue.

Absolutely right.

Back in January and November when cases AND hospital admissions and deaths were really surging upwards, those of us who were desperate for all these restrictions to end were fighting a losing battle. Absolutely no chances of that happening back then. But since then and due to the success of the amazing vaccines, hospital numbers and deaths have absolutely tumbled week on week and are now at very low levels. The NHS is no longer under extreme pressure, and hasn't been for several weeks. Hospital numbers and deaths won't ever rise to anywhere near those terrifying levels again that we saw back in January. In my opinion there is absolutely no valid justifications to keep any of these ridiculous restrictions any longer. They should all be scrapped immediately. But that won't happen. So will just have to put up with them until 21st June and not a day later. Come the 21st June it's high time this country recovers from all these damaging hassly restrictive nuisance restrictions, and gets back to normal life.
 

52290

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Best not mention that I've been know to have a couple of glasses of wine at 6am in an Leeds/Bradford lounge whilst waiting for an early morning flight to Spain, or once I was drinking a beer and eating pizza at 5am at LAX waiting for a flight to Hawai'i.... :D
When I use to go to Bavaria on holiday I would often come down for breakfast on a Sunday morning and find that the Stammtisch (regulars table) would be fully occupied by men drinking Wheat Beer. This would be the Früschoppen, or early session, something of an institution in Catholic Bavaria. I don't know if this was after, before or as a substitute for going to church.
 

MikeWM

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Heard of alcoholics they drink anytime of the day too

Many more people slipping into alcoholism is going to be one of the many awful results of all the lockdowns and restrictions, that we will have to live with for many years to come. The conditions imposed couldn't have been more perfect to incubate alcoholism. Whereas drinking in public, pubs in particular, reduce the amount of alcohol drunk over drinking alone.
 

kez19

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Here goes in response to recent posts...

If we accelerate the re-opening of society, we risk accelerating the spread of covid. It's that simple. And pressing fast-forward now risks pressing pause later in the year.

Let's use science here. See how gradual re-opening works. See what happens with the figures. And then take it slowly, slowly from there. A Tory MP was quoted in the Observer yesterday (anonymously) worried that we'd be back to square 1 if gradual re-opening ends up causing more harm than good. And I agree.

We've proven that we can be resilient for 13 months. We can prove the same for 18, or 24, if required. The danger of being too eager is being too unprepared.


What science all I have seen is them doing the Achy Breaky Heart.

Aah the resilient let’s drag lockdown further to 2 years next, yes people jobs livelihood, mental and physical state be gone by then but hey you don’t care regardless it’s COVID that’s all

Many more people slipping into alcoholism is going to be one of the many awful results of all the lockdowns and restrictions, that we will have to live with for many years to come. The conditions imposed couldn't have been more perfect to incubate alcoholism. Whereas drinking in public, pubs in particular, reduce the amount of alcohol drunk over drinking alone.


Exactly but seems like some people need their mind fully open than the blinkered media reporting in all this.

I apologise if my comment may come across a bit crass but truth be told than the sheltered approach
 

PR1Berske

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Many more people slipping into alcoholism is going to be one of the many awful results of all the lockdowns and restrictions, that we will have to live with for many years to come. The conditions imposed couldn't have been more perfect to incubate alcoholism. Whereas drinking in public, pubs in particular, reduce the amount of alcohol drunk over drinking alone.
This concern doesn't tally with the earlier posts congratulating people for 9am drinking. Either we accept that "celebrating" the easing of some restrictions at breakfast is problematic and potentially alcoholism, or we just allow a free for all.
 

kez19

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This concern doesn't tally with the earlier posts congratulating people for 9am drinking. Either we accept that "celebrating" the easing of some restrictions at breakfast is problematic and potentially alcoholism, or we just allow a free for all.


Happily for a free for all, you do realise COVID doesn’t hang around at breakfast it’s for life!
 

Darandio

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This concern doesn't tally with the earlier posts congratulating people for 9am drinking. Either we accept that "celebrating" the easing of some restrictions at breakfast is problematic and potentially alcoholism, or we just allow a free for all.

They are drinking at 9am this morning as a celebratory milestone, it's effectively freedom that they haven't had for months. I'm congratulating them on that, they aren't going to be lining up at the pub every morning at 9am.

Alcoholism by way of lockdown is a huge issue, and people like you who are claiming we can manage another 12 months of being locked up becuase of our 'resilience' is a big cause of it.
 
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PR1Berske

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Happily for a free for all
So this contradicts any concerns about alcoholism or problematic drinking. If you support free for all, you can't also be concerned about increased levels of drinking during necessary restrictions.
 

kez19

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So this contradicts any concerns about alcoholism or problematic drinking. If you support free for all, you can't also be concerned about increased levels of drinking during necessary restrictions.

Yet you wouldn’t about this before let’s get this straight?

I speak of pre-COVID

I support people doing whatever they feel like in life be today tomorrow next week, I couldn’t care each to their own but you on the other don’t that’s the problem


Funny that the government could not care about anyone’s life before this started but suddenly they do? If it was about saving lives then everyone life matters regardless but the COVID mindset is all that matters


You are of a mind where you are concerned what others are doing but you would rather beat them with a stick and tell them there actions are wrong, yet has it ever occurred to you to, one mind your own business what others do? Two shouldn’t you be concerned at how the Governments have reacted over this and yet there is no comeback from it (whilst the media fawn over certain people ie SAGE and Sturgeon) but at times give Boris a kick in, but yet it’s fine for them to do as they please but us the public are in the bad books for the littlest thing? Is it really about a virus or is it about control? I’ll leave that to you, also please be considerate towards others than thinking you are in the right, actually stop and think and I mean think and open your mind just that tiny bit then it may come clearer to you.
 
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NorthOxonian

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So this contradicts any concerns about alcoholism or problematic drinking. If you support free for all, you can't also be concerned about increased levels of drinking during necessary restrictions.
Except it's now less of a free for all in some ways. If you turn up regularly at the pub at 9am and get hammered, you're going to feel a fair amount of social pressure to stop. Whereas this doesn't exist if you're getting hammered at home and no-one knows.
 

Crossover

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This concern doesn't tally with the earlier posts congratulating people for 9am drinking. Either we accept that "celebrating" the easing of some restrictions at breakfast is problematic and potentially alcoholism, or we just allow a free for all.
I daresay this is somewhat deviating from the thread subject - a one-off early drinking session doth an alcoholic make
 

Djgr

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This is not an attitude I can agree with.

Viruses spread by today's behaviour will cause an acceleration of cases, and deaths possibly, and cause another lockdown.

Being libertarian about 9am boozing means being responsible for future restrictions.
In case you haven't noticed everybody vulnerable in the UK has been vaccinated
 
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