22nd February - Roadmap out of the pandemic, lifting of restrictions.

[VauxhallandI]

I'd rather we stayed safe. If we rush, and that rush fails, we can't turn back the clock, or hop over to Timeline B to see how that is panning out.

Cases going up is not "literally impossible". I don't believe that what we're seeing in India will happen here. However I would say that, unlike last summer, this summer has India (and Brazil) as rather humbling and stark reminders of what could happen.

I honestly enjoyed being outside, socialising, and feeling a sense of our new, altered normality. I am extremely risk averse, at the same time. Look at how easy it is to spread this disease, and then look at whether it is better to walk to May, and then June, rather than opening the floodgates tomorrow.

I was more alluding to if we concede a Winter uptake in cases (I know there is a disconnect from hospitalisation and deaths but lets ignore that as half the population has) are you happy to sit in restrictions waiting for it rather than us having some normality in the Summer?

If you have made the disconnect then what reasoning do you have to continue with restrictions? There is cautious and then there is out of the habit of being normal.

 

[Class 33]

Probably there will be a Downing Street News Conference tomorrow I think, or maybe Wednesday. I do hope though that Johnson doesn't go on about "A third wave is coming sometime this year." yet again. This will just fuel the press and media with "Boris Johnson warns of a third wave of Coronavirus on the way" headlines again! Be more positive Johnson. Stop going on about this third wave, which might not even happen.

Johnson going on about a third wave again today! And also saying "We're not out of the woods yet." again! Dear oh dear oh dear! Stop going on about this third wave that may not even happen! And even if there is a third wave of infections, this isn't going to lead to a devastating third wave of hospital admissions and deaths, due to the vaccines! Be more positive Johnson! That said though despite him saying that, he's also saying "As things stand there is a very good chance of really opening up totally on June 21st.".

 

[kez19]

Johnson going on about a third wave again today! And also saying "We're not out of the woods yet." again! Dear oh dear oh dear! Stop going on about this third wave that may not even happen! And even if there is a third wave of infections, this isn't going to lead to a devastating third wave of hospital admissions and deaths, due to the vaccines! Be more positive Johnson! That said though despite him saying that, he's also saying "As things stand there is a very good chance of really opening up totally on June 21st.".

Who is it thats putting in his head of a third wave? I thought this was lockdown 3 and we already have "wave 3", is it not 4? As isn't there stuff already on twitter of lockdown 4? (couple weeks back), thats how I count it!

Forgot its media hype once more, no wonder Boris is saying this over and over, I be surprised if the media have him over a barrel whilst our devolved nations have the media over their barrel!

I also agree about the lack of positivity, they were positive before but not now why? (I said this before but this not Boris alone with negativity the media are to blame too - lets not forget!)

 

[PR1Berske]

I was more alluding to if we concede a Winter uptake in cases (I know there is a disconnect from hospitalisation and deaths but lets ignore that as half the population has) are you happy to sit in restrictions waiting for it rather than us having some normality in the Summer?

If you have made the disconnect then what reasoning do you have to continue with restrictions? There is cautious and then there is out of the habit of being normal.

I want a safe summer. So, yes, a summer with social distancing and mask wearing.

I want a summer where people are back in pubs and shops. But I'm wary of the attitude becoming a collective "the bad thing has gone away" because it hasn't.

 

[VauxhallandI]

I want a safe summer. So, yes, a summer with social distancing and mask wearing.

I want a summer where people are back in pubs and shops. But I'm wary of the attitude becoming a collective "the bad thing has gone away" because it hasn't.

Why is different to all the other bad things that haven’t gone away?

 

[Dent]

I want a safe summer. So, yes, a summer with social distancing and mask wearing.

I want a summer where people are back in pubs and shops. But I'm wary of the attitude becoming a collective "the bad thing has gone away" because it hasn't.

If you don't want the barbaric restrictions to end even after even after not only everyone vulnerable, but the entire adult population, has been offered a vaccine, when exactly do you think all restrictions should end and people should actually be allowed to have a life?

 

[Bantamzen]

I want a safe summer. So, yes, a summer with social distancing and mask wearing.

I want a summer where people are back in pubs and shops. But I'm wary of the attitude becoming a collective "the bad thing has gone away" because it hasn't.

Well here's the thing, if you want a summer where retail and hospitality is back for people, social distancing isn't going to work because it cripples capacity, and masks, well are a pain meaning many people spend as little time as possible wearing them. None of these are conducive to successful retail or hospitality.

And as for "the big bad thing", well we have spent a huge amount of time and effort on a so far very successful vaccine programme, which means that a quarter of the adult population (including the vast majority of the most at risk) are fully vaccinated, and by the end of July the vast majority of the adult population will have at least have had one shot, meaning they will have increasing levels of protection. All of which means the risk to the NHS will be massively reduced, which in turn means there is little reason to keep any sort of restrictions. Well aside from keeping some people like yourself "feeling safe". But let's cut to the chase, our society & economy (which pays for the NHS) isn't here to do that. You will be free to make your own decisions on risk mitigation of course, but you won't be able to enforce it on others.

What I would like to see is the next two months used to roll back all the restrictions, getting people back to work, getting people back out spending, generating urgently needed tax revenue, revenue that is needed to improve the treatment of people with covid and all the other ailments that represent some risk to us as fragile meatbags. If it is zero risk you are after, forget it because that is quite literally impossible.

 

[Class 33]

People are definitely swaying away from this social distancing nonsense over the past few weeks or so. When passing people in the street anyway. From my experiences, I'd say it's about 95% or slightly more that don't bother socially distance now. I mean what's the point of this nonsense, when you're just passing people for barely a nanosecond?!

Face masks are absolutely ridiculous and pointless. They don't do a thing!

The vibe I'm getting when out and about is that the vast majority of people in this country are sick and tired of this social distancing and face mask wearing nonsense that has dragged on for far too long, and are very much looking forward to these restrictions being scrapped and a return to a normal life again.

Bring on 21st June. It absolutely just can't come soon enough! And it's far from just me saying that!

 

[kez19]

I want a safe summer. So, yes, a summer with social distancing and mask wearing.

I want a summer where people are back in pubs and shops. But I'm wary of the attitude becoming a collective "the bad thing has gone away" because it hasn't.

Why do we need a summer of distancing and wearing masks?? You do realise the immune system needs fresh air, so why should anyone be out and about with a mask on truly baffles me (but personal choice).

Distancing? yes just like last summer I kept my space but yet by some masked stranger i'm accused of not keeping it and by god it was them that done the wrong and recently visiting one of the local shops I got accused of not keeping my distance but yet had a mask on hmm yeah thats a new one to me!

I want a summer of 2018 where we were able to do as we please not this I am out, whoever said the bad thing has gone away? No one has but it doesn't help however the media basically depressing everyone over the same stuff how about some positivity or do we just put our heads in the sand?

I'm sorry to say this but the media and politicians have a lot to answer for and from what I mentioned above it isn't creating a safe environment its creating a hostile environment - I do stick to the rules regardless but for being accused of something a few weeks back was more than enough for me not to return to that shop (felt angry/upset) but still my feelings don't count either, like I said I wore a mask which I thought was important in the shop even though it was quiet but I got told off for not "social distancing" really? Its pretty stupid and let alone petty! Its no longer adults being grown up its turning adults to be kids with attitudes.

I'll further add but I do believe the tables are about to turn and for me I can't wait for the downfall to happen, people have had enough and I do mean had enough, our media and our politicians who probably thinking they'll get out of this on a free run, I think it'll come crashing down all around them, on a plus side I have seen more than I did first time round and its opened my mind/eyes for the better but hell I don't care as long as karma bites them on their own backsides, they have strung the public along for far too long now and people are waking up to the fact, by the way this alone doesn't just affect Boris but it does affect those in our devolved nations they are caught up in this and the media as I say are playing along with it, either with or for them but either way they'll come down with them.

People are definitely swaying away from this social distancing nonsense over the past few weeks or so. When passing people in the street anyway. From my experiences, I'd say it's about 95% or slightly more that don't bother socially distance now. I mean what's the point of this nonsense, when you're just passing people for barely a nanosecond?!

Face masks are absolutely ridiculous and pointless. They don't do a thing!

The vibe I'm getting when out and about is that the vast majority of people in this country are sick and tired of this social distancing and face mask wearing nonsense that has dragged on for far too long, and are very much looking forward to these restrictions being scrapped and a return to a normal life again.

Bring on 21st June. It absolutely just can't come soon enough! And it's far from just me saying that!

From where I am seems to me pretty much back to normal, apart from the people traffic on buses but it is starting to get a bit busy on some services.

 

[duncanp]

Johnson going on about a third wave again today! And also saying "We're not out of the woods yet." again! Dear oh dear oh dear! Stop going on about this third wave that may not even happen! And even if there is a third wave of infections, this isn't going to lead to a devastating third wave of hospital admissions and deaths, due to the vaccines! Be more positive Johnson! That said though despite him saying that, he's also saying "As things stand there is a very good chance of really opening up totally on June 21st.".

The picture becomes even more clearer if you look at the figures and strip out the false positives.

According to the dashboard, there were 1,477,709 tests conducted on 25th April, and 1,898 new cases detected via specimen date.

If you assume a false positive rate of 0.1%, that means that there were 1,477 false positives on 25th April, leaving just 421 "true" positives. So false positives account for over three quarters of "cases" detected.

Whatever the real figure for false positives, it seems to me to be clear that they are accounting for an increasing proportion of cases, and the actual prevalence of COVID has dwindled to a very low level, which certainly justifies carrying on with the roadmap as already stated.

 

[greyman42]

I want a safe summer. So, yes, a summer with social distancing and mask wearing.

I want a summer where people are back in pubs and shops. But I'm wary of the attitude becoming a collective "the bad thing has gone away" because it hasn't.

If you want to wear an awful mask and social distance for the rest of your life, that is fine by me. But don't expect me or many others to do the same. Come summer, i won't be doing either.

 

[PR1Berske]

If you want to wear an awful mask and social distance for the rest of your life, that is fine by me. But don't expect me or many others to do the same. Come summer, i won't be doing either.

I can't stop you making that decision. I'm not demanding it upon you. I'm not saying I want this modified normal for ever. We need it for now. We need to keep cautious.

But the restrictions are still law. I can't make you follow the law. A private business can, and will. A TOC can, and will.

 

[Dent]

I'm not saying I want this modified normal for ever. We need it for now. We need to keep cautious.

What are your criteria for ending this "for now" and no longer needing to be "cautious"? If even the whole adult population being vaccinated is not enough to satisfy you that these restrictions are no longer needed what exactly will it take?

 

[takno]

I can't stop you making that decision. I'm not demanding it upon you. I'm not saying I want this modified normal for ever. We need it for now. We need to keep cautious.

But the restrictions are still law. I can't make you follow the law. A private business can, and will. A TOC can, and will.

If the restrictions are still law the economy won't even start to recover, and if we have many more months of enforced social-distancing on public transport we can equally kiss our public transport system goodbye. We either snap out of this or our entire way of life is seriously threatened for a generation. Social distancing and masks for "just a bit longer" is not a safer option

 

[Lampshade]

I can't stop you making that decision. I'm not demanding it upon you. I'm not saying I want this modified normal for ever. We need it for now. We need to keep cautious.

But the restrictions are still law. I can't make you follow the law. A private business can, and will. A TOC can, and will.

So how long for? When is the end date? What’s the criteria?

“As long as it takes” is not an answer.

EDIT: I knew I wouldn’t get a response, just a troll.

 

[ChrisC]

If you want to wear an awful mask and social distance for the rest of your life, that is fine by me. But don't expect me or many others to do the same. Come summer, i won't be doing either.

I agree that masks are awful. I hate wearing one and seeing everyone else wearing them. Despite this I have followed the rules and have always worn a mask in places where it has been required, but never when walking around outside where there is minimal risk of infection. I hope they go soon.

Is it just in this area, but has anyone else noticed an increasing number of younger men, in their 20’s and 30’s, wearing masks when walking outside around the streets, even when they are on their own and not near anyone else. I drove into Nottingham the other evening and saw quite a number. Is a baseball cap and a dark mask the latest fashion trend when walking the streets? I hope this will not be a growing trend.

 

[takno]

I agree that masks are awful. I hate wearing one and seeing everyone else wearing them. Despite this I have followed the rules and have always worn a mask in places where it has been required, but never when walking around outside where there is minimal risk of infection. I hope they go soon.

Is it just in this area, but has anyone else noticed an increasing number of younger men, in their 20’s and 30’s, wearing masks when walking outside around the streets, even when they are on their own and not near anyone else. I drove into Nottingham the other evening and saw quite a number. Is a baseball cap and a dark mask the latest fashion trend when walking the streets? I hope this will not be a growing trend.

The Unabomber look is very in right now - I suspect the motivation is more anonymity than infection control. 18 months ago they would have been stopped and challenged on it, but now it's close to being government advice.

 

[Weekender]

I had a haircut on Friday, I was the first customer in and when I sat in the chair the barber said “ you can take your mask off Now if you like “
What a relief, i didn’t need telling twice!

 

[Bikeman78]

India is an unvaccinated country and whilst the daily case numbers are astronomical as a percentage of the population there case rate/100k is still below the UK's peak in January although on current trend may well exceed it within a few weeks.

This is a fact that seems to be overlooked. India has over a billion people, a lot of poverty and only a fraction of the population has been vaccinated. The only surprise is that the case explosion has taken this long.

 

[VauxhallandI]

I need this explaining to me.

If lockdowns and mask wearing has brought the cases down so we need to continue doing it as its not the vaccine then how can all the non compliant people and the demonstrations etc be at the same time ruining it?

These things don't match the figures and cannot exist in the same universe?

 

[PR1Berske]

I think we're in danger of repeating ourselves a tad here.

We've been required to follow these necessary rules for a while now, and there are, possibly, two months left before the most significant lifting of these necessary rules in June.

My feeling is that elements of these rules will still be in place at the discretion of private companies for some time after. Not because they're being funny or awkward or dictatorial. Because they want to be cautious and wary, just as a significant number of people remain cautious and wary.

Private companies are perfectly within their rights to demand entry requirements, that's why bouncers are a thing. Customers are perfectly entitled to take their custom elsewhere.

TOCs will carry on with mask wearing and social distancing if they believe its required to bring back customers who are wary about congested /standing room carriages. TOCs are perfectly entitled to enforce these rules.

To answer the questions put to me about "how long". I genuinely don't know. Summer will be a tough, long, risky period. The virus is difficult to beat. There may be genuine need to lockdown particular areas of required to "firefight" virus hotspots.

I don't know what this summer will look like. And neither do you. But hoping to go back to 2018 is the stuff of Doctor Who. The late MP Alan Clarke wrote very poignantly and directly about aging : you can't turn the clock back, not even by two seconds.

So to summarise (!).

I want to have a summer which fits within our modified normal, and that might mean being careful beyond June.

I accept you might not agree.
I accept the right of private companies to have their own opinion on restrictions.
I accept that I'm no scientist. But I doubt many are on here at all. The future to a man living in 2017 did not include Covid. The future to us living in 2021 is just as uncertain.

 

[VauxhallandI]

The continued mask farce is going to lead to more of this episode where a bloke with one lung after cancer is abused by some know it all lump on a train.

I think we're in danger of repeating ourselves a tad here.

We've been required to follow these necessary rules for a while now, and there are, possibly, two months left before the most significant lifting of these necessary rules in June.

My feeling is that elements of these rules will still be in place at the discretion of private companies for some time after. Not because they're being funny or awkward or dictatorial. Because they want to be cautious and wary, just as a significant number of people remain cautious and wary.

Private companies are perfectly within their rights to demand entry requirements, that's why bouncers are a thing. Customers are perfectly entitled to take their custom elsewhere.

TOCs will carry on with mask wearing and social distancing if they believe its required to bring back customers who are wary about congested /standing room carriages. TOCs are perfectly entitled to enforce these rules.

To answer the questions put to me about "how long". I genuinely don't know. Summer will be a tough, long, risky period. The virus is difficult to beat. There may be genuine need to lockdown particular areas of required to "firefight" virus hotspots.

I don't know what this summer will look like. And neither do you. But hoping to go back to 2018 is the stuff of Doctor Who. The late MP Alan Clarke wrote very poignantly and directly about aging : you can't turn the clock back, not even by two seconds.

So to summarise (!).

I want to have a summer which fits within our modified normal, and that might mean being careful beyond June.

I accept you might not agree.
I accept the right of private companies to have their own opinion on restrictions.
I accept that I'm no scientist. But I doubt many are on here at all. The future to a man living in 2017 did not include Covid. The future to us living in 2021 is just as uncertain.

Im sorry, so lets just say three retail brands decide to take extra measures to be cautious and wary. How does that make any sense when all the others aren't doing it? Its just twaddle I'm afraid to say or are we saying we will have a breed of masked people who only shop in certain cautious few shops. Bizarre

 

[duncanp]

TOCs will carry on with mask wearing and social distancing if they believe its required to bring back customers who are wary about congested /standing room carriages. TOCs are perfectly entitled to enforce these rules.

I would question whether TOCs have a "right" to enforce compulsory mask wearing and social distancing if the government says that they are no longer necessary, and amends the regulations accordingly.

If a shop wishes to enforce compulsory mask wearing, people are entitled to take their custom elsewhere, as usually there is a choice of shops.

But this is not the case with public transport, which is why these wretched COVID Status Certificates will never be compulsory on buses and trains.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

NHS England have a

This is a fact that seems to be overlooked. India has over a billion people, a lot of poverty and only a fraction of the population has been vaccinated. The only surprise is that the case explosion has taken this long.

Indeed the headline numbers are truly horrific and with a health care system capability less than Western countries the growth rate will push up the numbers further currently though case rate remains well below UK peak rate/100k in Jan 21. Of course the flaw in this is that India is testing at 1/10th the UK rate so numbers are potentially 10 times higher and off the scale below. There will be leakage across borders so this has the potential to run rampant across the Indian subcontinent. Until we are more certain our current vaccine can deal with it we need to be very cautious about allowing travel even to countries where they have high levels of vaccination.

 

[PR1Berske]

The continued mask farce is going to lead to more of this episode where a bloke with one lung after cancer is abused by some know it all lump on a train.

Im sorry, so lets just say three retail brands decide to take extra measures to be cautious and wary. How does that make any sense when all the others aren't doing it? Its just twaddle I'm afraid to say or are we saying we will have a breed of masked people who only shop in certain cautious few shops. Bizarre

We may do. That might be part of the modified normal after June, where wary and cautious people visit where they feel safer/safest. It's one possible way to balance reopening with pragmatism.

Other cultures – I think of Eastern Asia – wear masks as part of their lives without any question or protest. It's fascinating watching our culture lose its collective mind over it.

 

[david1212]

If you want to wear an awful mask and social distance for the rest of your life, that is fine by me. But don't expect me or many others to do the same. Come summer, i won't be doing either.

What are your criteria for ending this "for now" and no longer needing to be "cautious"? If even the whole adult population being vaccinated is not enough to satisfy you that these restrictions are no longer needed what exactly will it take?

If the restrictions are still law the economy won't even start to recover, and if we have many more months of enforced social-distancing on public transport we can equally kiss our public transport system goodbye. We either snap out of this or our entire way of life is seriously threatened for a generation. Social distancing and masks for "just a bit longer" is not a safer option

First vaccinations number have dropped to deliver second vaccinations as scheduled. However few who have not yet had a first vaccination should become seriously ill.

I will accept some restrictions remaining after 21st June up until 3 weeks after all adults have been offered a vaccination then everything must end.

Come the winter or some future point in time if there is a proveable benefit there can be recommendations e.g. masks in very close confinement e.g. London Underground at peak times pre March 2020.

If some want to carry on with masks, anti-social distancing, avoiding pubs, restaurants, cinema, physical ( as against online / home delivery ) shopping, public transport etc their choice. Likewise if just a personal decision not a medical one not to be vaccinated again individual choice.

 

[NorthOxonian]

Other cultures – I think of Eastern Asia – wear masks as part of their lives without any question or protest. It's fascinating watching our culture lose its collective mind over it.

If we ever became that sort of country, I would genuinely consider emigrating. I appreciate you probably don't see masks as a major thing but I hate the sight of them and have found they make communication far more difficult. I agree that there'll not be some mask bonfire on June 21st (sadly), but private businesses which mandate them will lose custom to those that don't, and there'll likely be a degree of social pressure to ditch them.

 

[VauxhallandI]

We may do. That might be part of the modified normal after June, where wary and cautious people visit where they feel safer/safest. It's one possible way to balance reopening with pragmatism.

Other cultures – I think of Eastern Asia – wear masks as part of their lives without any question or protest. It's fascinating watching our culture lose its collective mind over it.

Did you miss the bit where he had one lung?

Did you miss the bit where Japan’s cases have gone through the roof with 98% mask wearing?

If we ever became that sort of country, I would genuinely consider emigrating. I appreciate you probably don't see masks as a major thing but I hate the sight of them and have found they make communication far more difficult. I agree that there'll not be some mask bonfire on June 21st (sadly), but private businesses which mandate them will lose custom to those that don't, and there'll likely be a degree of social pressure to ditch them.

Then out will come the “can’t come in to this establishment WITH a mask on signs” oh what fun

These mask wearing places wear them when they have a cold, I think any stock footage of Japan or Korea will show you that they aren’t wearing masks in normal times at all. I think you’re on the wind up here

 

[PR1Berske]

I live in a University city with a significant East Asian student population. I remember how we all laughed and mocked the sight of new students wearing masks as they pottered about the place. We're not so sure about laughing now!

 

[kez19]

We may do. That might be part of the modified normal after June, where wary and cautious people visit where they feel safer/safest. It's one possible way to balance reopening with pragmatism.

Other cultures – I think of Eastern Asia – wear masks as part of their lives without any question or protest. It's fascinating watching our culture lose its collective mind over it.

Modified normal? What’s a modified normal? Sounds like something that is in our food, free from artificial ingredients and all that crap.

Quite, people of the uk losing minds over masks but let’s bury about the bigger picture people are already losing their lives by others other than COVID here, let’s get a perspective here, this isn’t saving lives at all it’s costing lives no matter but as long as COVID is in everyone’s mind let’s keep it going?

For me as I say I was due to have an appointment at some time within the next year or so to see if I maybe on the autistic spectrum but as far as I know it’ll be delayed further, plus at times now I have heightened anxiety which can come out of the blue and can come on even wearing masks but still my life doesn’t matter as it’s not part of the agenda that’s the problem here but people like you seem to bury your head in the sand and believe what our media politicians say without questioning the bigger picture but still as I say I have explained my own situation but I doubt anyone cares as long as it COVID