23.00 London Euston-Man picc why run it?

Discussion in 'UK Railway Discussion' started by northernrail2009, 9 Apr 2015.

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  1. northernrail2009

    northernrail2009 Member

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    I'm sat in the 23.00 London Euston to Manchester Virigin service and I'm thinking why do Virgin run it?

    There is hardly anyone on it and the timings are not great as I'm on till Macclesfield with a ETA of 01.30 so why does the trip take 45 mins longer then normal and also what is the routing on it?

    Is it more that it's Run for train crew to get back to Manchester?
     
    Last edited: 9 Apr 2015
  2. Cherry_Picker

    Cherry_Picker Established Member

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    How many times have you caught the train? Is it normally dead or are you basing your opinion on a sample size of one trip? (genuinely curious)
     
  3. northernrail2009

    northernrail2009 Member

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    I was on the same service a few weeks ago so yes have used it before.
     
  4. Cherry_Picker

    Cherry_Picker Established Member

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  5. Mugby

    Mugby Established Member

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    I bet if Man Utd. (or indeed City) had been playing an evening away match at one of the London grounds it would be rather busier!
     
  6. northernrail2009

    northernrail2009 Member

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    Yes but not really sure what's that got to do with it.

    I was just asking something but maybe I've picked a night where no one wants to use it and all the times I don't use it it's full.

    Into Stoke some 25 mins early.
     
  7. Mugby

    Mugby Established Member

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    Is it standing at Stoke for 25 mins?
     
  8. Clip

    Clip Established Member

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    It literally may be a service that would otherwise run ECS to manc ready for the next days service so maybe just better to run in revenue so that they get some money.
     
  9. Old Hill Bank

    Old Hill Bank Member

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    I've seen it all on here now. A complaint about running a passenger service. Many people across this nation would love a late night train but do not have one. Think twice Mr OP before you complain on this site about how bad the service is up your way.
     
    Last edited: 9 Apr 2015
  10. Cherry_Picker

    Cherry_Picker Established Member

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    I'm just curious about how factually accurate your opening statement was. I mean, a train you have caught once or twice that you probably haven't gone to the trouble of actually counting the number of passengers on board (have you?) and you are calling for it to be scrapped.

    I'm still not sure whether you are making a legitimate argument for the withdrawal of a service or just lamenting the incredibly slow timetabling of your train home tonight.

    I see the 23:00 is stop to set down only at every intermediate station bar Watford so it probably arrives in Manchester the best part of an hour early most evenings, right? Presumably the timetabling is there just to allow for potential late night engineering works (slow lines being closed, diversions via Northampton or Birmingham etc).
     
  11. me123

    me123 Established Member

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    Here's your route, I see you're due in to Macclesfield 23 minutes ahead of schedule. I wonder if the timings are to allow for diversions in case of late night engineering work?

    Whilst it may be quiet, a 2300 departure from London would be considered useful to many people. It gives you a good amount of time in the evening in London before you catch the train North, and would save many people staying in a hotel (which, at London prices, is not an insignificant benefit!). I can see it being useful for tourists/daytrippers (particularly if you can catch a West End show then hop on the train home) and businessmen (for example, going out to dinner after a business trip to the Capital).

    I can't find a document specifying the services that WC have to provide, but it may be that Virgin are instructed to provide a departure at this time as part of their franchise agreement? I've seen a document for Scotrail which details the services they have to provide, and it's remarkably prescriptive.
     
  12. Mugby

    Mugby Established Member

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    There are later departures than that from Pancras, to Derby at 23.15 and Leicester at 00.15.
     
  13. mirodo

    mirodo Member

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    Nah, most of the United fans would be getting the trains out of Victoria back to Surrey. :)
     
  14. IrishDave

    IrishDave Member

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    My favourite nugget about the 23:00 Euston-Manchester: it's a valid connection off the 20:10 Eurostar from Paris Gare du Nord, meaning you can leave Paris at 8pm (local time) and still get to Manchester that night. That, to me, is pretty impressive, and all the more reason for it to stay.
     
  15. MCR247

    MCR247 Established Member

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    That or taking the Heathrow Express
     
  16. northernrail2009

    northernrail2009 Member

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    I'm not complaining at all about the service as Virgin run there services well in my view and gives people the chance to see a show and get back home the same day as I have just done.

    I was just thinking if it made any money and was it worth them running it that's all.

    You seem to have taken it to heart that I was just asking a simple thing about the service.
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    People please calm down about my post as I didn't say in my post that Virgin should not run it.

    I asked if it was worth them running it and if it was the case that it is run to get train crew home.

    Please don't take it to heart as no I don't want Virgin to stop the service as me and my family can see a show and still get home the same day.
     
  17. Searle

    Searle Established Member

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    Wow, someone asking an innocent question getting seemingly interrogated before people can put words in his mouth. What a pleasant forum :lol:
     
  18. Holly

    Holly Member

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    Unfortunately it is typically necessary to walk out of a West End show 15 or 30 minutes before the end in order to catch the 23:00 from Euston. A midnight departure would serve more people, especially if it were to stop at a parkway station in the NorthWest (Crewe?).
     
  19. northernrail2009

    northernrail2009 Member

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    We came out of Wicked at Victoria at 10.15pm and onto tube and at Euston for 10.35pm so it can be done but think we were lucky as only waited for tube about a minute.
     
  20. tsr

    tsr Established Member

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    You shouldn't need to wait longer than 2-3 mins for a Victoria line train at that time of day.
     
  21. dk1

    dk1 Established Member

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    Most shows finish well before that so would see the end. In my experience it's almost possible to make the 22:30 from Liverpool St if you get a wiggle on.
     
  22. The Planner

    The Planner Established Member

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    It has all pretty much been answered, it has substantial engineering allowance in it to cover the two track timetable from Camden to Hanslope Junction and also to cover a diversion via Northampton if required and two track on the Trent Valley, no work, you make all that time up.
     
  23. Essexman

    Essexman Member

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    I stand with a West Ham supporter at Upton Park who lives in Manchester and catches this train back after evening games. He told me that it is quite busy with people returning after night out in London. Also people arriving at Heathrow during the evening and wanting a late train north. Plus of course football supporters depending on fixtures.
     
  24. gordonthemoron

    gordonthemoron Established Member

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    It should stop at MK too
     
  25. nuneatonmark

    nuneatonmark Member

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    And it should have stopped at Nuneaton if it wasn't for London Midland not keeping the station open longer! Very annoyed about that as has been said elsewhere it would have saved me having to stay in London overnight several times if I could have caught that train back.
     
  26. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    It could do with running on Saturday, when I imagine it would be much busier. Though perhaps VT don't want that market.
     
  27. Greenback

    Greenback Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    I'm always being told that it's the engineering work that means later services don't run on Saturdays. A few members of my family have been caught out when wanting to return to South Wales on a Saturday night!

    I don't know how true that is, but I think that late night trains like the one in question serve a very useful purpose, not only for those enjoying a night at a show, but as connections from further afield. I've arrived back home on the last train several times because I've come down from Scotland or over from the continent.
     
  28. lincolnshire

    lincolnshire Member

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    Most probably not allowed to run as this would delay the start of saturday night / sunday morning engineering works. There is nothing worse than a late running train you have to wait for before you can start and with a deadline for sunday morning to meet. Also waiting for a train to clear the overheads section before the Overheads can be isolated and earthed for engineering works.

    A lot of trains services end earlier on saturday evening and some run later than midweek on a sunday evening.
     
    Last edited: 9 Apr 2015
  29. Paul Sidorczuk

    Paul Sidorczuk Veteran Member

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    To hark back to the original query, this late service is one between two of the major cities of England. Are there not similar occurrences at this time of the day of rail services between major cities in Europe?
     
  30. Geezertronic

    Geezertronic Established Member

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    According to the timetable, this service is set down only at Stoke, Macclesfield and Stockport so whether it is on time or early (depending on whether engineering works cause the service to maintain the timetabled arrivals), the train would not need to wait at any of these intermediate stations for the timetabled departure time but could charge onto Piccadilly and get in as early as it can.
     
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