23:30 from Kings Cross to Leeds

[Buzz Lightyear]

I am looking to book on the 23:30 from Kings Cross to Leeds.

Can anyone tell my it is arrive Doncaster at 1:27 then not booked into Leeds until 2:36 am

Does it take a different route as I notice there’s no stop at Wakefield either.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

According to RTT, just looking up tonights service (1D36 - http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y60131/2017/10/23/advanced) it's a VTEC service that's scheduled according to the Working Timetable, to arrive at Doncaster at 01:39 and depart at 01:41 and it's arrival at Leeds, according to the Working Timetable is at 02:34

Do you know what day that you'll be travelling (or at least the day of the week)?

 

[Buzz Lightyear]

Probably Wednesday 15th Nov

 

[yorkie]

I am looking to book on the 23:30 from Kings Cross to Leeds.

Can anyone tell my it is arrive Doncaster at 1:27 then not booked into Leeds until 2:36 am

Yes, it tends to take a meander around Yorkshire.

Does it take a different route as I notice there’s no stop at Wakefield either.

The usual route for this service is via Askern, Knottingley and Methley. But other routes are possible.

 

[yorksrob]

Yrs, the lack of a stop in the Wakefield area is purely for NR's convenience, presumably so it doesn't have to arrange onward transport when it is going through the Wakefield area.

 

[Buzz Lightyear]

Just thought and hour and ten minutes or so from Donny to Leeds is more a Northern Rail schedule

 

[Ianno87]

Yrs, the lack of a stop in the Wakefield area is purely for NR's convenience, presumably so it doesn't have to arrange onward transport when it is going through the Wakefield area.

The responsibility for arranging road transport would fall to VTEC, not NR

 

[yorksrob]

It is, but the lack of night time connectivity to the Wakefield area is a genuine problem which no one in the railway industry can be bothered to address.

 

[yorksrob]

The responsibility for arranging road transport would fall to VTEC, not NR

Presumably NR would have to pay for it. I've had it confirmed officially that it was NR who decided to cancel the Wakefield stop on the last train from London.

 

[Tim R-T-C]

Interestingly, this service often seems to be running about 20 minutes early after Grantham and keeps to that time through to Leeds. Is it run as 'set down only' the whole way?

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y60131/2017/10/16/advanced

 

[yorkie]

Interestingly, this service often seems to be running about 20 minutes early after Grantham and keeps to that time through to Leeds. Is it run as 'set down only' the whole way?

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y60131/2017/10/16/advanced

Yes.

Yrs, the lack of a stop in the Wakefield area is purely for NR's convenience, presumably so it doesn't have to arrange onward transport when it is going through the Wakefield area.

Where do you propose the train calls, given it doesn't usually pass through either of the Wakefield stations?

Let's face it, there is no way it's going to be viable!

 

[yorksrob]

Yes.


Where do you propose the train calls, given it doesn't usually pass through either of the Wakefield stations?

Let's face it, there is no way it's going to be viable!

Yes.


Where do you propose the train calls, given it doesn't usually pass through either of the Wakefield stations?

Let's face it, there is no way it's going to be viable!

Well it used to call before NR asked for the stop to be removed, so one option would be to resume the original route.

The other would be to travel via Kirkgate and take the curve into Westgate and on to Leeds from there.

 

[DarloRich]

I am fairly certain the request to remove a stop would be done to allow for greater engineering access.

 

[Tim R-T-C]

It is, but the lack of night time connectivity to the Wakefield area is a genuine problem which no one in the railway industry can be bothered to address.

Is it that big of an issue? There are myriad of places which lack rail service at that time of night. There are services up until midnight which is standard for most stations.

Since the last VTEC train often does not pass through Wakefield, passengers would have to get off at Doncaster or Leeds and get a taxi through to Wakefield Westgate then travel on to their house. Instead, since it does not stop there, passengers have to get off at Doncaster and a get a taxi/lift to their house. Probably far more convenient than having to wait around for an organised taxi service or replacement bus, which can take forever to get moving or organised.

 

[Halish Railway]

Sometimes the train does go via Wakefield without stopping, even though it is scheduled to go via Pontefract. All if this is the same to say with the 06:55 Skipton to Kings Cross on a Saturday that goes via Garforth.

 

[yorksrob]

I am fairly certain the request to remove a stop would be done to allow for greater engineering access.

This was the reason quoted by them, although why the Doncaster - Leeds section has to be shut every night for engineering work I've never been able to fathom.

 

[yorksrob]

Is it that big of an issue? There are myriad of places which lack rail service at that time of night. There are services up until midnight which is standard for most stations.

Since the last VTEC train often does not pass through Wakefield, passengers would have to get off at Doncaster or Leeds and get a taxi through to Wakefield Westgate then travel on to their house. Instead, since it does not stop there, passengers have to get off at Doncaster and a get a taxi/lift to their house. Probably far more convenient than having to wait around for an organised taxi service or replacement bus, which can take forever to get moving or organised.

Apart from the fact that it's massively expensive to get a taxi from Leeds/Doncaster to the Wakefield area.

Wakefield is the main IC railhead for the whole surrounding area which is why it should get the full IC service, including the night train from London.

 

[Taunton]

Surely the whole reason for allowing such extended times is so it is not necessary to report any delay to the service in the official statistics, no matter how it may be diverted through the night. The statistics only measure the final destination station.

 

[bb21]

Surely the whole reason for allowing such extended times is so it is not necessary to report any delay to the service in the official statistics, no matter how it may be diverted through the night. The statistics only measure the final destination station.

It is so that any diversion (especially last-minute ones) can be accounted for, paths suitably allowed, and customers' expectations on journey times and arrival times competently managed.

 

[johntea]

I usually find the 23:30 advance tickets are generally quite cheap compared to earlier in the evening, a Uber from Leeds to Wakefield is quoted as £12 - £18 if you're that desperate to be in Wakefield at that hour in the morning, I certainly wouldn't

 

[rustbucket]

When I travelled on this service a couple of years ago - apparently the slow and scenic stroll from Doncaster - Leeds is for 'Drivers Route Knowledge'

 

[yorksrob]

When I travelled on this service a couple of years ago - apparently the slow and scenic stroll from Doncaster - Leeds is for 'Drivers Route Knowledge'

Could they not pop up front on a Northern train between Wakefield Kirkgate and Leeds every month ?

 

[SpacePhoenix]

When I travelled on this service a couple of years ago - apparently the slow and scenic stroll from Doncaster - Leeds is for 'Drivers Route Knowledge'

Is Doncaster-Leeds a normal diversion route for VTEC?

 

[High Dyke]

Shaftholme Junction - Knottingley West Junction (26) YA03
Mondays to Saturdays: Grand Central services between Doncaster and Pontefract Monkhill (i.e. those not shown in Hare Park Junction - Crofton West Junction entry)
¶ Sunday to Friday nights:
1N35 2200 Kings Cross - Newcastle
1D35 2235 SuO, 1D36 2330 SSuX Kings Cross – Leeds

http://www.psul4all.free-online.co.uk/2017.htm

Is Doncaster-Leeds a normal diversion route for VTEC?

Well Doncaster - Leeds (via Wakefield) is the normal service route, but diversions have been known via Knottingley (as above), Hambleton Junction or even via the Hare Park route.

 

[IanXC]

If we discount the connectional possibilities, the last services from Kings Cross are:

1H07 2030 Hull Trains to Hull
1D33 2135 Virgin Trains to Leeds via Wakefield Westgate
1D99 2152 Grand Central to Wakefield Kirkgate (to start in the next timetable period)
1N35 2200 Virgin Trains to Newcastle
1N36 2257 Virgin Trains to York
1D36 2330 Virgin Trains to Leeds

So whilst Wakefield's journey opportunities could be improved, they clearly are not terrible.

 

[The Planner]

This was the reason quoted by them, although why the Doncaster - Leeds section has to be shut every night for engineering work I've never been able to fathom.

How long should NR have for engineering access then? VTEC could have quite easily have declined the request.

 

[Tetchytyke]

It's a compromise, just as the 2200 Newcastle routing is a compromise. NR didn't want any of these late night trains to be running, the compromise is they run to the main destination but not necessarily on the usual route. The 0425 from Newcastle almost went for a similar reason.

 

[bb21]

When I travelled on this service a couple of years ago - apparently the slow and scenic stroll from Doncaster - Leeds is for 'Drivers Route Knowledge'

That is correct, same as many other late-night or early morning services which take unusual routes.

Could they not pop up front on a Northern train between Wakefield Kirkgate and Leeds every month ?

Not much goes on the chord just north of Kirkgate, nor down the Askern. It is a useful little tool in VTEC's box due to its versatility.

Not much good for you, unfortunately.

 

[Islandexpress]

If we discount the connectional possibilities, the last services from Kings Cross are:

1H07 2030 Hull Trains to Hull
1D33 2135 Virgin Trains to Leeds via Wakefield Westgate
1D99 2152 Grand Central to Wakefield Kirkgate (to start in the next timetable period)
1N35 2200 Virgin Trains to Newcastle
1N36 2257 Virgin Trains to York
1D36 2330 Virgin Trains to Leeds

So whilst Wakefield's journey opportunities could be improved, they clearly are not terrible.

Is this 2152 Wakefield Kirkgate service going to terminate there?

 

[yorksrob]

How long should NR have for engineering access then? VTEC could have quite easily have declined the request.

Like all the rest of the ECML, they should have the nights they actually need for maintenance and stump up for an RRB.