26-30 Railcard and Caledonian Sleeper

Discussion in 'Fares Advice & Policy' started by RJ, 4 Jan 2019.

  1. RJ

    RJ Established Member

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    Mod Note: Posts #1 - #20 originally in this thread.

    I'll be buying one. My 16-25 expired a few months ago and I've got some Caledonian Sleeper trips planned for which I want the discount rate for First Class.
     
    Last edited: 4 Jan 2019
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  3. Furrball

    Furrball Member

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    No discount on sleeper

    • 26-30 Railcard – We do not offer discounts on Shared or Solo occupancy rooms or seated products.

    https://www.sleeper.scot/tickets-timetables/railcards
     
  4. island

    island Established Member

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    I fear you’re out of luck. Serco CS does not honour 26-30 discounts, other than (I suppose) if you have an any-permitted ticket, which would be for seats only.
     
  5. RJ

    RJ Established Member

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    I fear you're right. Will kick that one into the long grass then and wait until the no sharing with strangers policy comes in where I'll get a better deal then.
     
    Last edited: 5 Jan 2019
  6. JonathanH

    JonathanH Established Member

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    Hasn't that policy already come in? Bookings are now for rooms rather than berths.
     
  7. AY1975

    AY1975 Member

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    Or a berth if you pay the Room Supplement.
     
  8. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    Will they issue that against a 26-30 discounted ticket?
     
  9. AY1975

    AY1975 Member

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    The CS website appears to indicate that they will.
     
  10. Iskra

    Iskra Established Member

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    Advice from RDG was if no 26-30 option was shown on a booking engine/TVM to use the 16-25 option instead. I have booked a CS berth with a 26-30 but using the 16-25 option following the RDG’s advice. I’m travelling next week so I shall let you know how I get on.

    I can’t see how CS can go against what the RDG have said, I’ll certainly be following it up if I’m asked to pay more.
     
  11. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    I hope your journey isn't essential, as most likely you will be refused travel, not asked to pay more. I don't believe tickets are sold at the train so the usual "right, Anytime then" approach can't apply.
     
  12. ForTheLoveOf

    ForTheLoveOf Established Member

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    And if they are silly enough to try that on, they would be in breach of contract due to the explicit instructions issued by the RDG!
     
  13. Iskra

    Iskra Established Member

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    That wouldn’t be a very customer friendly approach towards someone who has spent probably thousands with CS. Hopefully common sense will prevail, otherwise it will be the last time I use them.

    Luckily I’m travelling from a station with a ticket office so I could buy a new one if it came to that, then pursue CS afterwards. Alternatively, I would overnight and then catch an early train from the TOC which I currently have a free travel voucher for.

    I normally find the CS staff to be good so hopefully it can be resolved.
     
  14. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    I don't see how those instructions can override the explicit and widely-made statement by CS that they do not accept that Railcard which is no doubt incorporated into the Railcard T&C. Railcard T&Cs override other ticket T&Cs if stricter, such as I can't buy a Network Card discounted Anytime Single for use before 10am.
     
  15. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    I don't know when the reservation cut-off is, but if the train is boarding I doubt you can buy a ticket for it then. That assumes it isn't full, even so - you might hold the ticket for a given berth for a YP holder, but that doesn't make it possible to reserve another if it's full.

    If you're happy with the risk of having to take a hotel at your own cost, go for it (well, perhaps don't, as it's wilful fare evasion doing it and knowing about it) - but I think you are very unlikely to be allowed to board the train.
     
  16. marks87

    marks87 Established Member

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    Surely that advice only applies when trying to purchase tickets where the 26-30 Railcard can be used, but the system isn't providing you with the option to do so?

    CS explicitly state they do not accept 26-30 Railcard:
    https://www.sleeper.scot/tickets-timetables/railcards
     
  17. janb

    janb Member

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    26-30 Railcard website is explicit as well.

     
  18. Iskra

    Iskra Established Member

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    It might state it there, but it didn’t say anything on the pages when I booked it! I had a good rummage around looking at the menus, accommodation etc. So perhaps they might put it in a more sensible place if they’re going to diverge from what all other TOC’s do and contradict what the RDG say.

    I will contact them to try resolve the situation before travelling and to provide feedback on this issue so that nobody else ends up in this situation.
     
  19. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    If you use a Railcard you must read the Railcard T&C when you take it out, and it is your responsibility to know that where they are tighter than a ticket's restrictions the stricter of the two apply.
     
  20. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    Hopefully they will allow you to excess to the full price - but depending on how nasty they feel like being you could theoretically lose the value of the ticket.
     
  21. marks87

    marks87 Established Member

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    Where is this advice you speak of? Is is publicly-available, or did they provide it to you after you raised the query? If it's the latter, then what exactly did you ask?

    Either way, however, it's still your responsibility to check the validity of the railcard on the specific journey you want to make.
     
  22. ainsworth74

    ainsworth74 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Whatever the Railway's view of the matter may be it is, of course, bound now by the requirements of Consumer Law. It is well held that in the event of terms which are confusing or contradictory that the interpretation most favourable to the consumer must prevail.

    In the case in question the consumer is presented with a Railcard app which pops up a messing that they must acknowledge telling them not all systems are updated with 26-30 Railcards. Their Railcard then states on it "Valid with 16-25 or 26-30". At no stage is there a warning that exclusions may apply to these statements. When one consults the 26-30 Railcard website FAQ a question is asked under "Validity" stating "Which train companies give Railcard Discounts?" and that is answered:

    A question just below asks "Can I use my Railcard on any Train Company?" and is answered:

    Given that information an argument could be advanced that a consumer would be well within their rights to rely on the advice given by their Railcard app and the Railcard website. At no stage are they warned exceptions apply and indeed those two answers above are quite clear and explicit that it is valid on any train company except those listed. The Sleeper.scot website makes no warning whilst booking that the 26-30 is not accepted (I accept there is a page but there's no warning when you use the booking engine).

    I do not believe, under Consumer Law, that a passenger who is charged twice or made to pay extra would find it hard to bring a claim against Caledonian Sleeper for breach of contract considering all the information that is available that suggests it is valid.

    I do not know which way such a claim would go but I would be hesitant to rule out success in such a case for our erstwhile consumer.
    Indeed so and if the Railway Industry provided clear and accurate information that argument would be overwhelming. However, they do not and as such I do not think that it is quite so clear cut.
     
  23. Mainline421

    Mainline421 Member

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    This has certainly been possible in the past, so presumably still is.
    This advice is correct the 26-30 Railcard is valid on the Caledonian Sleeper (e.g using an any permitted ticket or ALR) but holders of the railcard must sign an agreement acknowledging that it does not provide discounts on Caledonian Sleeper only tickets.
     
  24. Starmill

    Starmill Events Co-ordinator

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    What do you think they do for a customer boarding at Spean Bridge if they don't sell tickets on the train...
     
  25. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    I was referring to the situation at Euston, not a Scottish halt. That you can buy a ticket on the train boarding a Buxton line train at Middlewood, say, doesn't affect the fact that you can't buy a ticket on the train departing Manchester Piccadilly as you wouldn't get past the barrier staff without one.
     
  26. BigCj34

    BigCj34 Member

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    Why is the CS not allowing 26-30 discounts? Do they think there are enough users in that bracket paying full-fare, thinking they will lose revenue if offering the discount? Personally it looks like they are losing patronage to other forms of transport.
     
  27. Starmill

    Starmill Events Co-ordinator

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    Is this even really true? When the railcard first went on sale I read the terms to check if there were differences to 16-25 - I am sire that term was not there. I think it has been added recently, since CS decided they didn't like giving a discount to people with Family Railcards or 26-30 railcards. Quite why they are allowed to just say no randomly to certain railcards I don't know.
     
  28. Muzer

    Muzer Established Member

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    Presumably you can buy a standard super off-peak return and then get a supplement for whichever room type you want - or do they still retain restrictions on which room types can be bought against which ticket classes, even with the new ticketing structure?
     
  29. Starmill

    Starmill Events Co-ordinator

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    You said 'tickets are not sold onboard'. Even from Euston I'm sure that's not true. Say you booked seated, but there are many unsold berths on the train. If you ask to upgrade, they will probably sell you a new ticket. What else are they going to do? Upgrade you for free?
     
  30. Starmill

    Starmill Events Co-ordinator

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    Experience suggests that the likely outcome is that nothing will happen, the ticket will just be accepted.
     
  31. greatkingrat

    greatkingrat Established Member

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    The Priv Sleeper online discount thread suggests their ticket checking isn't exactly rigorous.
     

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