26-30 Railcard and Caledonian Sleeper

Discussion in 'Fares Advice & Policy' started by RJ, 4 Jan 2019.

  1. ForTheLoveOf

    ForTheLoveOf Established Member

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    An excellent post which says more or less exactly what I was going to say.

    Unfortunately too many parts of the rail industry still don't recognise the fact that there are now laws regulating their private contracts with passengers (which certainly used not to exist to the same extent as they do now).
     
  2. Starmill

    Starmill Events Co-ordinator

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    This is exactly my experience. I boarded in 2017 with no check of actual tickets at all, I gave my surname, they checked me in on their reservation list and that was it. I didn't even open the wallet my tickets were in.
     
  3. ForTheLoveOf

    ForTheLoveOf Established Member

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    I have to add myself to that list. I did the Caledonian Sleeper with an InterRail pass of all things the first time I took it, and they didn't check once to see whether I had any date boxes remaining, or whether indeed I had filled a date box out at all!
     
  4. ainsworth74

    ainsworth74 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Another one for that! Couple of trips for me and I think I had my ticket checked once and even then they didn't care about the railcard (16 - 25 at that time).
     
  5. Iskra

    Iskra Established Member

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    Does anyone know when CS decided they weren't doing 26-30 Railcards and stated so on their website? Obviously, if I bought it before they changed it, they should honour it (or communicate with me to make alternative arrangements or tell me it isn't valid).

    Incidentally, my ticket was bought for the new stock too, and they haven't got in touch about that either (although I know from on here it won't be the new stock).
     
  6. Kite159

    Kite159 Veteran Member

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    Was that before or after they introduced the checking in process at the terminals?
     
  7. Iskra

    Iskra Established Member

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    https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...d-from-spring-2018.154195/page-8#post-3374288

    This was the information provided when I bought my railcard. I read this at the time of purchase, but have not been back to the website to re-read any T&C's that may have changed since I bought my railcard. I assumed that CS hadn't updated their website to accept 26-30 railcards in the absence of anything telling me that they didn't. Thus I put it down as a 16-25. At no point during the purchasing process is there any mention of 26-30 railcards not being valid.

    It may well be my responsibility to endlessly read the T&C's, but their current practices are not customer friendly at all. Although I've not got the ticketing expertise that some clearly have on here, I'm definitely more informed than your average punter, so I very much doubt I'm the first to be caught out by this.
     
  8. robbeech

    robbeech Established Member

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    This is a valid point. The (IMO quite frankly laughable) check in queue system which seems grossly inefficient at best does do one good thing, it generally checks tickets, something I’d had less than 20% of times previously and even then it’s often just a berth number check.
     
  9. RJ

    RJ Established Member

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    I don't think my 16-25 railcard was asked for when I boarded at Rannoch early last year. I was more concerned about not being notified about the lack of any dining available on the train, which was known about for the whole day as supplies could not be delivered to the train. It's not as if a pit stop can be made along the way! I'm still willing to give their 1st service another chance as everything else was in order and the gentle rock of the carriage allowed for a wonderful night's sleep.

    SERCO still seem to be finding their feet but you'd think that for any business, making sure the right money is coming in would be a priority!
     
  10. gcmozart

    gcmozart Member

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    I would second this - recently with the new check-in system my tickets & railcard were checked, whether they would pick up the difference between 16-25 & 26-30 I dont know. But the checks are now more stringent at terminals.
     
  11. Iskra

    Iskra Established Member

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    Just by way of an update. CS were happy for me to pay the difference in advance.

    However, my ticket was fully refundable so I'm going to cancel it and then re-book a new ticket from another station now anyway.
     
  12. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    Fair enough. This seems like a pragmatic way to deal with someone getting confused due to two apparently conflicting pieces of information.
     
  13. ji459

    ji459 Member

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    In this case there are two different contracts - one with ATOC Ltd in relation to the railcard and another with Serco Caledonian Sleepers Limited for the train ticket.

    If the 26-30 railcard website is indeed not warning customers that there is no discount available on Caledonian Sleeper tickets, that is a matter between the railcard holder and ATOC. There is no contract between the railcard holder and Caledonian Sleeper in relation to the railcard.

    I don't see why the Caledonian Sleeper website would have to "warn" people that the 26-30 railcard isn't valid. On the homepage there is a drop-down menu to add railcards when purchasing a ticket and the 26-30 railcard simply isn't listed.
     
  14. ainsworth74

    ainsworth74 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Because the Railcard itself informs the consumer that not all booking engines have been updated and states on it:

    Valid with:
    16-25 tickets
    26-30 tickets​

    Still as a I say my view is that a claim against Caledonian Sleeper would not be without merit but I can certainly see why some may disagree.
     
  15. WelshBluebird

    WelshBluebird Established Member

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    Because, as ainsowrth74 above says, part of the T&C's of the 26-30 railcard is that it is also valid with 16-25 railcard discounted tickets if the 26-30 railcard wasn't an option when purchasing. Indeed when buying tickets with the 26-30 railcard I have found some staff will just issue a 16-25 railcard discounted ticket anyway.
     
  16. Iskra

    Iskra Established Member

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    Just rang CS today to get my ticket refunded. Told; you can't get a refund. However, my ticket clearly states on it that is refundable up to 12pm the day before travel.

    Getting a bit annoyed with CS now, one of their clerks tells me it's no problem and I can pay the difference, ring a different day and get a completely different answer and a complete lack of customer service.
     
  17. ForTheLoveOf

    ForTheLoveOf Established Member

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    It's up to you what you do - I have discussed the matter further with some legal 'sources' and they say that CS are in the right here (insofar as rejecting the Railcard discounted ticket goes). It is ATOC you need to pursue for any damages resulting from their misleading statements.

    Obviously if CS are refusing to give a refund on a refundable ticket that is a quite separate breach of contract.
     
  18. Iskra

    Iskra Established Member

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    I'm not interested in pursuing CS (or anyone else) for anything. I just want them to make their booking process clear so others do not find themselves in the same situation.

    Additionally, I would like them to provide a degree of customer service and not contradict themselves. I've been honest with them and offered to pay the difference (or refund and rebook with them). They said that was fine. Now they're saying that's not possible and saying I can't have a refund when my ticket says on it that it is refundable.

    My experience until now of CS has been overwhelmingly positive. However, this is souring things somewhat and I'm now questioning whether to bother with them again. I don't have to spend my money with them; I get dirt cheap Premier Inns through work and currently hold two free first class anytime tickets with LNER anywhere on their network, so I was going out of my way to use CS, I'll not bother again.
     
  19. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    If you have a ticket stating it's refundable, it's refundable. Can't you do it online? I certainly have before. Pretty sure the standard £10 is charged but compared with CS ticket prices that's very little.

    Can you post a photo of your ticket minus any identifying details (like TOD CTR)?
     
  20. ainsworth74

    ainsworth74 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    I feel like the only tickets I do get with the right discount are those that I've bought myself from a TVM or online. Even when staff comment on it "oh I've not seen that one before!" they just issue it with the 16-25 discount. I assume it's because they all know to type YNG into their machine to get the discount but don't know TST.
     
  21. ForTheLoveOf

    ForTheLoveOf Established Member

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    You have been misled into thinking what you were doing was correct, though - and ATOC are to blame for that.

    CS' fault lies in handling the resultant situation poorly.
     
  22. Iskra

    Iskra Established Member

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    I’ve sent them a copy of my e-ticket and they have now admitted they wrongly issued some tickets last year with incorrect terms and have done me a refund. Got there in the end. Now, I’ve just got to replan my journey!
     
  23. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    Thank goodness for that. Definitely poor service, though.
     
  24. Wallsendmag

    Wallsendmag Established Member

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    I believe its RDG that have made the mistake not ATOC
     
  25. ForTheLoveOf

    ForTheLoveOf Established Member

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    RDG is just a trading name. Legally the entity that sells Railcards is ATOC Ltd.
     
  26. Wallsendmag

    Wallsendmag Established Member

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    Ah so your previous gripe about delay repay wasn't with Chiltern or Arriva, it was with the German government ?
     
  27. Muzer

    Muzer Established Member

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    No, Chiltern's legal name is THE CHILTERN RAILWAY COMPANY LIMITED. I don't know of any company whose legal name is "the German government".
     
  28. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    They're the same thing under two names, aren't they?
     
  29. ForTheLoveOf

    ForTheLoveOf Established Member

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    Precisely. No better way of diluting the issue than to add irrelevant drivel!
     
  30. ForTheLoveOf

    ForTheLoveOf Established Member

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    As another poster has said, Chiltern is an abbreviation of the legal name. RDG sounds, and is spelled, nothing like the legal name, and if someone pursued a "RDG" in London then they would not get very far trying to take them to Court.
     

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