Diamond Bus (Warwickshire, West Midlands, Worcestershire)

[Pat1105]

The buses are not in a previous operators livery as Hansons of Stourbridge & Central Buses are now part of Diamond Bus and as such are of no consequence to TfWM if the vehicle allocated is to the specification in the tender.

How are they not previous operator livery? Yes, they were acquired by Diamond, but it’s still a previous operator livery.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

My argument makes perfect sense. Fair enough, the Hansons vehicles can be seen often on Stourbridge locals, but the Central vehicles are all over the place. There’s always some on Bilston services. Central didn’t operate in Bilston. Those NX corporation liveries are heritage liveries. They’re to commemorate the old corporations, and there’s only 5 or 6 sporting a heritage livery in the whole fleet. NX repainted them from the red & white livery, so hardly previous operator livery. Diamond have many more vehicles in previous operator livery. I've never seen the Walsall corporation trident on the 4H.

As I mentioned earlier, the way vehicles are presented says a lot about the operator. Diamond have no continuity with their fleet livery, which shows they simply can’t be bothered to simple tasks such as repainting a bus into fleet livery. There are many small independents who manage to do this soon after they acquire the bus, so if they can do it then why can’t Diamond? They’ve had these Hansons/Central vehicles for years now and yet they still aren’t painted.

The AQPS rules state:
2.8.2 No vehicles are to be used which remain in a livery belonging to a previous operator under any circumstances or bear any previous operator’s branding or other information.

Diamond are breaking these regulations here, yet TfWM don’t seem to be doing anything about it.

The Hansons vehicles aren't confined to Stourbridge - here is a less than premium looking machine in Worcester https://www.flickr.com/photos/john-...dWMRm-24XmaBF-2dVkmzW-2fuhpwA-2hQfemp-2h6VKv5

Unless there's been a recent repaint, think this one is still running around after nearly two years

AE59EHO Volvo B7RLE/Plaxton Centro - Diamond Bus

New to Whippet.

www.flickr.com

Perhaps not the most consistent of images.

 

[richardjones21]

How are they not previous operator livery? Yes, they were acquired by Diamond, but it’s still a previous operator livery.

Hansons & Central Buses are now part of its current operator consequently the vehicles are not in a previous operators livery

 

[CBlue]

The buses are not in a previous operators livery as Hansons of Stourbridge & Central Buses are now part of Diamond Bus and as such are of no consequence to TfWM if the vehicle allocated is to the specification in the tender.

May not be in the tender, and pedantry aside, running vehicles in multiple liveries on the same route is usually very confusing for passengers - especially if they aren't a regular user. When my local Stagecoach opco took over a local independent, the independent's fleet sometimes escaped onto other services in their old liveries with Stagecoach logos.

People never tended to board them, assuming their tickets weren't valid.


Also witness the days in London where companies running London Buses services like Bexleybus, in blue and cream, had to put red boards on the front panels saying "BUS" with a roundel, because passengers weren't boarding (assuming their tickets weren't valid) despite route numbers not being changed.


So it's poor practice at least to not have a uniform livery operating on a service.

 

[richardjones21]

The Hansons vehicles aren't confined to Stourbridge - here is a less than premium looking machine in Worcester https://www.flickr.com/photos/john-...dWMRm-24XmaBF-2dVkmzW-2fuhpwA-2hQfemp-2h6VKv5

Unless there's been a recent repaint, think this one is still running around after nearly two years

AE59EHO Volvo B7RLE/Plaxton Centro - Diamond Bus

New to Whippet.

www.flickr.com

Perhaps not the most consistent of images.

Diamond Bus operate a very sucessfull business model which should be applauded and respected. I see no need for them to change any part of thier operation and wish them every continued success.

Birmingham, The Black Country & North Worcestershire are very lucky to have such an excellent operator in a very hard market to operate within.

 

[richardjones21]

May not be in the tender, and pedantry aside, running vehicles in multiple liveries on the same route is usually very confusing for passengers - especially if they aren't a regular user. When my local Stagecoach opco took over a local independent, the independent's fleet sometimes escaped onto other services in their old liveries with Stagecoach logos.

People never tended to board them, assuming their tickets weren't valid.


Also witness the days in London where companies running London Buses services like Bexleybus, in blue and cream, had to put red boards on the front panels saying "BUS" with a roundel, because passengers weren't boarding (assuming their tickets weren't valid) despite route numbers not being changed.


So it's poor practice at least to not have a uniform livery operating on a service.

The good people of Halesowen seem to have no problem boarding the correct bus despite thier being two competing operators on Service 4H in many different liverys with two different fare structures.

 

[freetoview33]

I think that’s mostly what puts people off using buses - the fact that there isn’t a route that takes them from A to B. I think the idea of having to change buses somewhere, whether it be a bus station or stop in a town centre etc, seems daunting to first timers, or those who are unfamiliar with a particular network or area.

And this is going to be the problem in the Bristol area

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I see no need for them to change any part of thier operation

They're perfect?

 

[richardjones21]

They're perfect?

More or less yes I cannot find any faults in Diamond Bus using them regularly in preference to National Express West Midlands where available.

 

[Pat1105]

Diamond Bus operate a very sucessfull business model which should be applauded and respected. I see no need for them to change any part of thier operation and wish them every continued success.

Birmingham, The Black Country & North Worcestershire are very lucky to have such an excellent operator in a very hard market to operate within.

They're perfect?

I wouldn’t say Diamond are perfect. Sometimes, I wonder how some of their vehicles are still on the road quite frankly. I was speaking to an ex Diamond driver not too long back. He said that Diamond was a terrible company and the worst he’d worked for. He said that he would start his bus up in the morning and the dashboard would be like a christmas tree with warning lights left right and centre. When he reported these defects, the engineers told him the bus was fine, even though it clearly wasn’t.
Diamond obviously seem to concentrate most on the routes that they compete on in terms of vehicle quality and presentation. However, we must not forget that they provide a SERVICE to everyone else, regardless if they live on a 10 minute frequency service with brand new streetlites or an hourly tendered service that uses a 10 year old Optare Solo. The quality should be consistent, regardless.

 

[richardjones21]

I wouldn’t say Diamond are perfect. Sometimes, I wonder how some of their vehicles are still on the road quite frankly. I was speaking to an ex Diamond driver not too long back. He said that Diamond was a terrible company and the worst he’d worked for. He said that he would start his bus up in the morning and the dashboard would be like a christmas tree with warning lights left right and centre. When he reported these defects, the engineers told him the bus was fine, even though it clearly wasn’t.
Diamond obviously seem to concentrate most on the routes that they compete on in terms of vehicle quality and presentation. However, we must not forget that they provide a SERVICE to everyone else, regardless if they live on a 10 minute frequency service with brand new streetlites or an hourly tendered service that uses a 10 year old Optare Solo. The quality should be consistent, regardless.

Diamond Bus provides an excellent service throughout its operations and the service it operates matches demand for it.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

More or less yes I cannot find any faults in Diamond Bus using them regularly in preference to National Express West Midlands where available.

And yet cruelly not reflected in independent passenger surveys? Some people just don't recognise perfection, I guess.

 

[CBlue]

Fair point that Diamond a perfect operator.

Admittedly this was back in 2018, and before that they were given a formal warning by the TC..

Diamond Bus fined by Traffic Commissioner for punctuality issues

Diamond Bus Ltd has been fined following a public inquiry which demonstrated a compliance level of 91% Diamond Bus Ltd has been ordered to pay a total penalty of £9,075 after it failed to meet [...]

cbwmagazine.com

Formal warning for Diamond Bus

Operator improves since 2014 PI, but still above non-compliance threshold, and sees only half of O-licence increase authorisation granted Rotala-owned Diamond Bus Ltd has been given a formal warning after it was called to a [...]

cbwmagazine.com

So yes, perfect operator?




That aside, and getting back on topic, I still think one winner for running second hand stuff around in old liveries was On A Mission Coaches of Buckinghamshire, who operated local service routes around Milton Keynes with a splendid fleet of old tat including a Magic Bus Leyland Olympian in full branding, a few Lothian liveried Royale bodied Volvo Olympians and to top it off several former Arriva Volvo Citybuses, all still in their former colours...in a town where Arriva were the main operator. Funnily enough the TC shut them down after a short while.

 

[richardjones21]

Fair point that Diamond a perfect operator.

Admittedly this was back in 2018, and before that they were given a formal warning by the TC..

Diamond Bus fined by Traffic Commissioner for punctuality issues

Diamond Bus Ltd has been fined following a public inquiry which demonstrated a compliance level of 91% Diamond Bus Ltd has been ordered to pay a total penalty of £9,075 after it failed to meet [...]

cbwmagazine.com

Formal warning for Diamond Bus

Operator improves since 2014 PI, but still above non-compliance threshold, and sees only half of O-licence increase authorisation granted Rotala-owned Diamond Bus Ltd has been given a formal warning after it was called to a [...]

cbwmagazine.com

So yes, perfect operator?




That aside, and getting back on topic, I still think one winner for running second hand stuff around in old liveries was On A Mission Coaches of Buckinghamshire, who operated local service routes around Milton Keynes with a splendid fleet of old tat including a Magic Bus Leyland Olympian in full branding, a few Lothian liveried Royale bodied Volvo Olympians and to top it off several former Arriva Volvo Citybuses, all still in their former colours...in a town where Arriva were the main operator. Funnily enough the TC shut them down after a short while.

I fail to see what 2018 has to do with the comments I have made about the current excellent operations of the Diamond Bus today unless you have access to a tardis.

 

[richardjones21]

And yet cruelly not reflected in independent passenger surveys? Some people just don't recognise perfection, I guess.

The meetings I attended at the WMCA rarely contain complaints about Diamond Bus in comparison to other operators within the TfWM area.

 

[Robertj21a]

More or less yes I cannot find any faults in Diamond Bus using them regularly in preference to National Express West Midlands where available.

Incredible. No wonder I don't bother responding to your crazy comments. Totally amazing how you can be so blinkered and generally lacking in knowledge of the wider bus operations across the UK.

 

[richardjones21]

Incredible. No wonder I don't bother responding to your crazy comments. Totally amazing how you can be so blinkered and generally lacking in knowledge of the wider bus operations across the UK.

I work in the bus industry & live in the West Midands why would I need knowledge of operations elsewhere other than for Diamond Bus & First Midland Red.

I fail to see what is crazy about comments about the operators I use daily & know well. I rarely use National Express West Midlands services prefering to use the vastly superior Diamond Bus where possible within the TfWM operation area.

 

[Robertj21a]

I work in the bus industry & live in the West Midands why would I need knowledge of operations elsewhere other than for Diamond Bus & First Midland Red.

I fail to see what is crazy about comments about the operators I use daily & know well. I rarely use National Express West Midlands services prefering to use the vastly superior Diamond Bus where possible within the TfWM operation area.

At least you're great entertainment even if you are clearly very naive and blinkered.

 

[richardjones21]

At least you're great entertainment even if you are clearly very naive and blinkered.

Your more than welcome to your comments which I fully respect but fail to see how I am blinkered in anyway about the bus operations across Worcestershire & The West Midands I just give honest comments based on my own experiences.

 

[Pat1105]

Your more than welcome to your comments which I fully respect but fail to see how I am blinkered in anyway about the bus operations across Worcestershire & The West Midands I just give honest comments based on my own experiences.

What are your opinions on Banga Buses, Thandi and Travel Express, if you’ve used them?

 

[richardjones21]

What are your opinions on Banga Buses, Thandi and Travel Express, if you’ve used them?

I have never ever used any them so I cannot really comment on them I only comment on operators I use & know about although Thandi have been awarded TfWM contracts this year and have heard no adverse reports of their performance in the course of my work.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

At least you're great entertainment even if you are clearly very naive and blinkered.

The Comical Ali of bus operations Great value

 

[Robertj21a]

Your more than welcome to your comments which I fully respect but fail to see how I am blinkered in anyway about the bus operations across Worcestershire & The West Midands I just give honest comments based on my own experiences.

It says quite a lot about your understanding of bus operations in general if you think that a detailed knowledge of just one area is particularly useful when you clearly have little awareness of what else goes on across the UK.
Did you benchmark your work and knowledge against other recognised operators ?

 

[richardjones21]

It says quite a lot about your understanding of bus operations in general if you think that a detailed knowledge of just one area is particularly useful when you clearly have little awareness of what else goes on across the UK.
Did you benchmark your work and knowledge against other recognised operators ?

No

 

[richardjones21]

The Comical Ali of bus operations Great value

Great value relative to the excellent value fares offered by Diamond Bus on its commercial services in the West Midands. As a professional I do need have to resort to juvenile comments to make my points.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Great value relative to the excellent value fares offered by Diamond Bus on its commercial services in the West Midands. As a professional I do need have to resort to juvenile comments to make my points.

No, you're quite right. You're an eminently qualified individual who believes that Diamond is the zenith of UK bus operation.

It was @Robertj21a that I was enjoying banter with.

 

[richardjones21]

No, you're quite right. You're an eminently qualified individual who believes that Diamond is the zenith of UK bus operation.

It was @Robertj21a that I was enjoying banter with.

Isn't everyone a fan of Diamond Bus?

 

[jammy36]

More or less yes I cannot find any faults in Diamond Bus using them regularly in preference to National Express West Midlands where available

Diamond Bus provides an excellent service throughout its operations and the service it operates matches demand for it.

The meetings I attended at the WMCA rarely contain complaints about Diamond Bus in comparison to other operators within the TfWM area

I'm interested in the fact that you find Diamond to be a faultless operator and one which isn't complained about locally, yet others on this forum are painting very different picture. I appreciate you can only base your comments on your own experience, but wonder why you rate the company so highly? What is it that the company does so well in your eyes?

I don't know Diamond well myself, but it is interesting that the company you hold in such high regard does poorly in customer satisfaction surveys (e.g. in the latest Transport Focus Bus Passenger Survey, published March 2020, but covering Autumn 2019 Diamond's services in Worcester scored an overall satisfaction rating of 80%, one of the worst in the country). Is there a reason why the company is so poorly rated by its customers? By comparison First in Worcester scores a much more respectable 88%. How come the "useless rabble currently in charge" of First are able to deliver better passenger satisfaction rating?

Vehicle condition and cleanliness is one of the metrics used and Diamond perform very poorly here, so it is something that passengers notice.

Satisfaction ratings:
Overall
TfWM - 85%
Worcester - 86%
Diamond - 80%
First - 88%

Value for money
TfWM - 66%
Worcester - 64%
Diamond - 68%
First - 63%

Punctuality
TfWM - 73%
Worcester - 72%
Diamond - 70%
First - 70%

Journey time
TfWM - 84%
Worcester - 86%
Diamond - 80%
First - 87%

Destination/route display
TfWM - 83%
Worcester - 80%
Diamond - 74%
First - 83%

Exterior cleanliness/condition
TfWM - 77%
Worcester - 72%
Diamond - 61%
First - 77%

Interior cleanliness/condition
TfWM - 73%
Worcester - 77%
Diamond - 66%
First - 81%

 

[richardjones21]

I'm interested in the fact that you find Diamond to be a faultless operator and one which isn't complained about locally, yet others on this forum are painting very different picture. I appreciate you can only base your comments on your own experience, but wonder why you rate the company so highly? What is it that the company does so well in your eyes?

I don't know Diamond well myself, but it is interesting that the company you hold in such high regard does poorly in customer satisfaction surveys (e.g. in the latest Transport Focus Bus Passenger Survey, published March 2020, but covering Autumn 2019 Diamond's services in Worcester scored an overall satisfaction rating of 80%, one of the worst in the country). Is there a reason why the company is so poorly rated by its customers? By comparison First in Worcester scores a much more respectable 88%. How come the "useless rabble currently in charge" of First are able to deliver better passenger satisfaction rating?

Vehicle condition and cleanliness is one of the metrics used and Diamond perform very poorly here, so it is something that passengers notice.

Satisfaction ratings:
Overall
TfWM - 85%
Worcester - 86%
Diamond - 80%
First - 88%

Value for money
TfWM - 66%
Worcester - 64%
Diamond - 68%
First - 63%

Punctuality
TfWM - 73%
Worcester - 72%
Diamond - 70%
First - 70%

Journey time
TfWM - 84%
Worcester - 86%
Diamond - 80%
First - 87%

Destination/route display
TfWM - 83%
Worcester - 80%
Diamond - 74%
First - 83%

Exterior cleanliness/condition
TfWM - 77%
Worcester - 72%
Diamond - 61%
First - 77%

Interior cleanliness/condition
TfWM - 73%
Worcester - 77%
Diamond - 66%
First - 81%

Sorry for the late reply I was caught up with Absolute 80s Live on Absolute Radio.

You have raised interesting points:

TfWM do not operate any buses and are the transport authority headed by our excellent elected Mayor Andy Street of the WMCA who has transformed buses within his elected area in just four years and should be applauded for all his hard work.

I think your are referring to West Midlands Travel Limited not TfWM.

First of all Diamond Bus offer an all day ticket of just £2.85 across its commercial network in Sandwell & Dudley which I believe is one of the lowest priced tickets of it's kind in the UK.

Diamond Bus pioneered smartphone tickets which are used by many customers and in the West Midands County are some of the lowest price tickets in the UK.

Diamond Bus has worked in partnership with TfWM and its lower priced tickets are valid on many West Midlands Travel Ltd services offering very low priced travel in some of the poorest areas of the UK to passengers on low incomes.

Diamond Bus has survived since October 1986 operating against West Midlands Travel Limited in an area dominated by the operator and its Travelcard offering passengers a credible alternative on many key corridors against WMT.

Passengers in North Worcestershire recieve a quality service in area of high car ownership after both First Midland Red & Whittles found it impossible to provide a viable service with little support for the Country Council.

Diamond Bus works in partnership with TfWM to ensure areas in which West Midlands Travel are unable to provide a commercial service in the Evenings & Sunday in order for all West Midlands residents recieve a 7 day bus service.

Diamond Bus operates commercial services in the West Midand County 7 days a week 364 days a year many of the so called respected operators on this forum do not operate commercially 364 days a year Diamond Bus only close on Christmas Day.

I have full respect to the excellent Phil Tonks a truly wonderful man I am honoured to know but the last survey was made before nearly 100 new buses have hit the roads of the West Midands which will improve the customer perception of Diamond Bus.

Thanks are also due to Simon Dunn MD of Diamond Bus on the best leaders in the industry and the architect of the current sucess of the company.

I hope that answers your points and doesnt invite facious comments from other posters on this forum.

 

[freetoview33]

The lower fares come against SOME people arguing Diamonds standards are lower than other operators.
Diamond might legally be the same company but they did get taken over, so are they really the same company?
And how ever good Simon Dunn might be the Wessex ops didn't work out and they took quite a hit on it when they sold the limited remnants to Stagecoach