Diamond Bus (Warwickshire, West Midlands, Worcestershire)

[jammy36]

Sorry for the late reply I was caught up with Absolute 80s Live on Absolute Radio.

Thanks for the response. No need to apologise, you are not under any obligation to respond to a random person on a forum, let alone within any timeframe

I think your are referring to West Midlands Travel Limited not TfWM

Sorry, I should have clarified the figures above for TfWM and Worcestershire represent the combined average operator scores for those areas. The Diamond and First scores are the operator specific scores.

Diamond scores are worse on most aspects, except value for money (and even there the score isn't that great) and it is interesting that low fares is something you highlight. Hopefully the company can improve in other areas, including vehicle presentation, to raise those metrics. I'm guessing there will need to be a careful balance between raising quality and investing in services, whilst keeping costs down. Certainly adding nearly 100 new vehicles in the last six months is a significant investment that will need recovering.

 

[Pat1105]

Diamond Bus works in partnership with TfWM to ensure areas in which West Midlands Travel are unable to provide a commercial service in the Evenings & Sunday in order for all West Midlands residents recieve a 7 day bus service.

Diamond Bus operates commercial services in the West Midand County 7 days a week 364 days a year many of the so called respected operators on this forum do not operate commercially 364 days a year Diamond Bus only close on Christmas Day.

TfWM subsidise most of Diamond’s Sunday services, including the ones NX run Monday-Saturday ,bar a select few routes, such as the 4. There are also many other operators who operate commercially 364 days a year, including NX. I fail to see how these two points you’ve made about Diamond sets them out as being an excellent and faultless operator. Any operator can bid for these tenders, so it doesn’t make Diamond the ‘heroes’ swooping in to save the Sunday services.

 

[freetoview33]

I fully expected when the great facts of the sucess of Diamond Bus would bring the namby pandys out.

In 2019/2020 exactly who are these people who argue Diamond Bus standards are lower than operators if so why does a legal authority Transport for West Midlands continue to award contacts to the company?

Who are these people and are they saying The Mayor of the WMCA is awarding contracts to a company that doesnt meet the required standards of the DfT I would be greatfull if you would state who these people are in order for me to pass it to WMCA for a full investigation of the allegations you make.

All companies attempt ventures which either succeed or fail that is the economic theory of Keynes Wessex failed I fully admit but didn't Stagecoach sell Preston Bus to Rotala after the MMC found they had breached competition laws I do not remember Diamond Bus having to fo something similar.

The Companies House registeration number is the same as it was it in 1986 it was launched by the Geoff Howle run into the ground by Go Ahead and an MD now at another Worcestershire bus company being run into the ground again and revitalised by Rotala but the same company that took me to College now takes me to work 36 years later

And so your argument is what exactly?

I really don't see where Preston bus comes into the equation.

 

[richardjones21]

TfWM subsidise most of Diamond’s Sunday services, including the ones NX run Monday-Saturday ,bar a select few routes, such as the 4. There are also many other operators who operate commercially 364 days a year, including NX. I fail to see how these two points you’ve made about Diamond sets them out as being an excellent and faultless operator. Any operator can bid for these tenders, so it doesn’t make Diamond the ‘heroes’ swooping in to save the Sunday services.

If Diamond Bus are so bad why do Transport for West Midlands keep awarding contracts to the company and who exactly are these other operators willing to operate the contacts at the rates Diamond Bus giving the best value possible for rate payers in the West Midands who fund the services via levy exactly who are they please name them?

West Midlands Travel only operated 364 days per year after Diamond Bus began running Boxing Days services in partnership with Centro.

No other operator provides high frequency services between Weoley Castle & Halesowen or between Halesowen & Blackheath via Coombes Wood on a Sunday commercialy on a Sunday can you explain why West Midlands Travel do not operate on these key corridors on a Sunday?

Which other operators provide a full Sunday Service to the normal timetable on Boxing Day from the start of normal service to the end West Midlands Travel certainly dont the 13 & 13A end early so please explain why?

 

[richardjones21]

I really don't see where Preston bus comes into the equation.

Preston Bus was bought by Rotala when Stagecoach was forced to sell the company by the regulatory authority while Rotala chose to sell Weesex to Stagecoach at the end of its venture or did you not realise that?

 

[freetoview33]

Preston Bus was bought by Rotala when Stagecoach was forced to sell the company by the regulatory authority while Rotala chose to sell Weesex to Stagecoach at the end of its venture or did you not realise that?

But Preston bus has nothing to do with Wessex in this context. I am fully aware of the ruling requiring Stagecoach to sell the Preston ops.

Wessex had been ran into the ground over a number of years, Selling was just trying to salvage what they could from it. Looking back now I bet stagecoach wish they hadn't purchased the few routes and the few knackered buses!

I agree Bristol isn't easy and Stagecoach seem to be finding this out too. And that is most likely why Mr Dunn decided to focus on the West Midlands where he could see more of an opportunity.

 

[Pat1105]

If Diamond Bus are so bad why do Transport for West Midlands keep awarding contracts to the company and who exactly are these other operators willing to operate the contacts at the rates Diamond Bus giving the best value possible for rate payers in the West Midands who fund the services via levy exactly who are they please name them?

West Midlands Travel only operated 364 days per year after Diamond Bus began running Boxing Days services in partnership with Centro.

No other operator provides high frequency services between Weoley Castle & Halesowen or between Halesowen & Blackheath via Coombes Wood on a Sunday commercialy on a Sunday can you explain why West Midlands Travel do not operate on these key corridors on a Sunday?

Which other operators provide a full Sunday Service to the normal timetable on Boxing Day from the start of normal service to the end West Midlands Travel certainly dont the 13 & 13A end early so please explain why?

TfWM award Diamond these contracts, as they bid the lowest price, dependant on what the contract is awarded on of course. I can’t give you the names of the operators willing to operate the Sunday tenders, as I don’t have them. If you look at the TfWM tender results on their website, they show more than one bidder. Therefore, there are other operators who are willing to run these services.

In reference to the Weoley Castle service. It doesn’t just serve Halesowen and i’m sure you know that. It actually terminates at one of the country’s biggest shopping centres. I’ve never seen Merry Hill quiet on a weekend. NX operate services to Merry Hill on Sundays also.

Do Diamond really provide a full Sunday timetable on boxing day? I highly doubt it. The reasoning for this - lack of passenger demand. Surely you’d know this if you work in the bus industry?

 

[cnjb8]

Even if Diamond is good, it still has a reputation. If it can shake that off then maybe they'll be a good operator, but investing in 100s of new buses isn't going to do it.

 

[freetoview33]

Even if Diamond is good, it still has a reputation. If it can shake that off then maybe they'll be a good operator, but investing in 100s of new buses isn't going to do it.

But it is one of the things that was/is needed.

 

[richardjones21]

TfWM award Diamond these contracts, as they bid the lowest price, dependant on what the contract is awarded on of course. I can’t give you the names of the operators willing to operate the Sunday tenders, as I don’t have them. If you look at the TfWM tender results on their website, they show more than one bidder. Therefore, there are other operators who are willing to run these services.

In reference to the Weoley Castle service. It doesn’t just serve Halesowen and i’m sure you know that. It actually terminates at one of the country’s biggest shopping centres. I’ve never seen Merry Hill quiet on a weekend. NX operate services to Merry Hill on Sundays also.

Do Diamond really provide a full Sunday timetable on boxing day? I highly doubt it. The reasoning for this - lack of passenger demand. Surely you’d know this if you work in the bus industry?

Yes Diamond Bus provide a full Sunday Service on its commercial routes operated on a normal Sunday on Boxing Day I would be greatfull if you would prove me wrong @Pat1105

West Midlands Travel Ltd do not operate between Blackheath & Halesowen via Coombes Wood on a Sunday or between Weoley Castle & Halesowen on Sunday again I would be grateful if you would be kind enough to prove me wrong @Pat1105

I would be greatly @Pat1105 if you would supply the name of another operator that can provide the same standard of service on the specifications of TfWM tender at lower cost to the West Midlands Council Tax Payer as Diamond Bus on a Sunday or evening

I am more than happy @Pat1105 to withdraw my posts if you provide alternative information that they are not factually correct & would be happy to post any apology that may be due.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I know we've drifted from the original subject topic (so perhaps the mods need to split the Diamond posts away to form a separate thread) but there are a number of highly subjective views and some factual inaccuracies.

First of all, it is fair to say that whilst not knowing the gentleman, Simon Dunn has fashioned a profitable business and for that, credit should be given. It is also right to point out that he engages with the enthusiast fraternity, notably on the WM bus photo forum, where he takes time to answer questions and refer to concerns. Not many senior industry figures would do that, so credit where it's due. Rotala has also invested in new vehicles, whether it be Mellor Stratas, Streetlites or Streetdecks - perhaps not everyone's preferred choices but they have spent money on fuel efficient vehicles.

However, the idea that the Rotala business under its various guises (e.g Preston Bus, Hallmark, Diamond NW, Diamond WM/Worcs) is some peerless exemplar of the bus industry is simply laughable. Even Bob Dunn recognises the issues that they have experienced in taking on the Bolton business.

In late 2016, the WM/Worcs business appeared in front of the TC who said "I am clear that on too many occasions the company’s service has fallen far short of the required standards. After continued issues during 2017, they were again in front of the TC who whilst acknowledging the "good repute" of the company and it's TM said "It is clear, however, that these efforts have not yet fed through to produce services of a reliability (in some areas at least) which passengers have the right to expect. I will ask DVSA to continue to keep Diamond Bus Ltd’s services under observation. The company should be in no doubt that the reliability of its services must improve further.” The TC said that the public of Kidderminster had been "poorly served". In that background, it is perhaps not surprising that the views of passengers are low.

The statement that Diamond were pioneers of mobile/smartphone ticketing is factually untrue. Both First and Arriva were trialling and implementing mobile ticketing in 2013/4 - well ahead of Rotala.

I do hope that Rotala in their various incarnations do manage to improve the level of service. They clearly do have some dedicated, hard working staff; one particular Diamond NW journey I experienced in Dec 2018 was possibly the best driven journey I've had in many years and there are some things in which they should be congratulated (such as they new vehicle investment). However, the overall quality is below average and this is shown in objective metrics (DVSA monitoring), subjective metrics (personal experience) and customer surveys.

 

[Pat1105]

I know we've drifted from the original subject topic (so perhaps the mods need to split the Diamond posts away to form a separate thread) but there are a number of highly subjective views and some factual inaccuracies.

First of all, it is fair to say that whilst not knowing the gentleman, Simon Dunn has fashioned a profitable business and for that, credit should be given. It is also right to point out that he engages with the enthusiast fraternity, notably on the WM bus photo forum, where he takes time to answer questions and refer to concerns. Not many senior industry figures would do that, so credit where it's due. Rotala has also invested in new vehicles, whether it be Mellor Stratas, Streetlites or Streetdecks - perhaps not everyone's preferred choices but they have spent money on fuel efficient vehicles.

However, the idea that the Rotala business under its various guises (e.g Preston Bus, Hallmark, Diamond NW, Diamond WM/Worcs) is some peerless exemplar of the bus industry is simply laughable. Even Bob Dunn recognises the issues that they have experienced in taking on the Bolton business.

In late 2016, the WM/Worcs business appeared in front of the TC who said "I am clear that on too many occasions the company’s service has fallen far short of the required standards. After continued issues during 2017, they were again in front of the TC who whilst acknowledging the "good repute" of the company and it's TM said "It is clear, however, that these efforts have not yet fed through to produce services of a reliability (in some areas at least) which passengers have the right to expect. I will ask DVSA to continue to keep Diamond Bus Ltd’s services under observation. The company should be in no doubt that the reliability of its services must improve further.” The TC said that the public of Kidderminster had been "poorly served". In that background, it is perhaps not surprising that the views of passengers are low.

The statement that Diamond were pioneers of mobile/smartphone ticketing is factually untrue. Both First and Arriva were trialling and implementing mobile ticketing in 2013/4 - well ahead of Rotala.

I do hope that Rotala in their various incarnations do manage to improve the level of service. They clearly do have some dedicated, hard working staff; one particular Diamond NW journey I experienced in Dec 2018 was possibly the best driven journey I've had in many years and there are some things in which they should be congratulated (such as they new vehicle investment). However, the overall quality is below average and this is shown in objective metrics (DVSA monitoring), subjective metrics (personal experience) and customer surveys.

Fully agree with the points you’ve made. Simon does indeed engage with enthusiasts, and will happily answer any questions we may have. Also, it is good that he does this, as enthusiasts are more likely to spot something wrong or that needs attention with a particular vehicle or service and he is happy to take onboard the comments and rectify the situation. I think other operators should engage more with enthusiasts for the same reasons.
I have had many Diamond drivers who are polite, helpful and who engage with the passengers. Most of them are regular drivers on the route, so get to know the passengers by name and vice versa. This is what sets them apart from NX in one way. That said, i’ve had drivers who have driven off route (one through a car park), are rude, don’t know about ticketing or who drive dangerously. I once had a driver on the 24 who was driving very dangerously, as he was going rather fast round narrow estate streets and was breaking very sharply and heavily.
However, vehicle quality standards still continue to be poor. It’s all fine and well having good relations with your customers, but if you have vehicles that are unreliable, poorly presented and could break down at any point, you’re failing on the main part of your product.

Moderators, please feel free to split the thread as it has gone off on a tangent from the original topic somewhat.

 

[Pat1105]

Yes Diamond Bus provide a full Sunday Service on its commercial routes operated on a normal Sunday on Boxing Day I would be greatfull if you would prove me wrong @Pat1105

West Midlands Travel Ltd do not operate between Blackheath & Halesowen via Coombes Wood on a Sunday or between Weoley Castle & Halesowen on Sunday again I would be grateful if you would be kind enough to prove me wrong @Pat1105

I would be greatly @Pat1105 if you would supply the name of another operator that can provide the same standard of service on the specifications of TfWM tender at lower cost to the West Midlands Council Tax Payer as Diamond Bus on a Sunday or evening

I am more than happy @Pat1105 to withdraw my posts if you provide alternative information that they are not factually correct & would be happy to post any apology that may be due.

I never said that NX operated on the Weoley Castle to Halesowen corridor. It is Diamond’s 002 service. As I said, I can’t provide you the name of another operator who bids for these tendered services, as my sources don’t show that information. Instead, i’ll provide you this link that shows the tender results for October 2019, in which you can see there are more than one bidder for some tenders that Diamond currently operate: https://www.tfwm.org.uk/media/47382/stat-inf-october-2019.pdf

NX do operate 4H journeys on a Sunday between Blackheath & Halesowen: https://nxbus.co.uk/routes/west-midlands/B004Hh/?timetable[day]=&tab=

My apologies Richard, you are correct in that Diamond did operate a full Sunday timetable on Boxing Day on SOME routes only. A special timetable was introduced, but not for every route:

 

[6Gman]

Hansons & Central Buses are now part of its current operator consequently the vehicles are not in a previous operators livery

Technically and legally Diamond Bus Ltd (fleetname Diamond Bus) operates under a single licence. The Hansons and Central Buses licences have, I assume, been surrendered.

Assuming they purchased the intellectual property rights they could use the names as brands (in the way that Thandi Coaches (Red) Ltd uses Thandi Coaches, Evergreen and Bowen) but I'm not aware that they do so.

As an occasional visitor (though not currently) to the West Midlands I would have to say that I have always found the presentation of Diamond vehicles externally to be poor - the livery doesn't help - though it has improved with the newer vehicles.

 

[richardjones21]

I never said that NX operated on the Weoley Castle to Halesowen corridor. It is Diamond’s 002 service. As I said, I can’t provide you the name of another operator who bids for these tendered services, as my sources don’t show that information. Instead, i’ll provide you this link that shows the tender results for October 2019, in which you can see there are more than one bidder for some tenders that Diamond currently operate: https://www.tfwm.org.uk/media/47382/stat-inf-october-2019.pdf

NX do operate 4H journeys on a Sunday between Blackheath & Halesowen: https://nxbus.co.uk/routes/west-midlands/B004Hh/?timetable[day]=&tab=

My apologies Richard, you are correct in that Diamond did operate a full Sunday timetable on Boxing Day on SOME routes only. A special timetable was introduced, but not for every route:
View attachment 79090

Please check again National Express West Midlands only operate 4H between Hayley Green & Halesowen ONLY the only operator operating via Gorsty Hill & Coombes Wood from Halesowen to Blackheath is Diamond Bus unless you know something I dont @Pat1105 ?

 

[richardjones21]

I never said that NX operated on the Weoley Castle to Halesowen corridor. It is Diamond’s 002 service. As I said, I can’t provide you the name of another operator who bids for these tendered services, as my sources don’t show that information. Instead, i’ll provide you this link that shows the tender results for October 2019, in which you can see there are more than one bidder for some tenders that Diamond currently operate: https://www.tfwm.org.uk/media/47382/stat-inf-october-2019.pdf

NX do operate 4H journeys on a Sunday between Blackheath & Halesowen: https://nxbus.co.uk/routes/west-midlands/B004Hh/?timetable[day]=&tab=

My apologies Richard, you are correct in that Diamond did operate a full Sunday timetable on Boxing Day on SOME routes only. A special timetable was introduced, but not for every route:
View attachment 79090

@Pat1105 as with the Sunday NXWM 4H service please check your timetables carefully. My post said Diamond Bus operates a full Sunday service on Boxing Day on all its routes on which all Diamond Bus low fare products are valid. This may be regarded as special but is the same timetable as a normal Sunday but registered separately. This of course refers to the commercial services operated by the company.

My post is correct different special timetables are for services are operated by the company under contract on tender to Transport for West Midlands. TfWM set the special timetables and fares and Diamond Bus low fare products are not valid. These services are TfWM services & not Diamond Bus services therefore my post is correct. Most are usually operated by buses in the dedicated red TfWM West Midlands Bus livery and not Diamond Bus blue and run to a different timetable to a normal Sunday set by TfWM.

 

[richardjones21]

Technically and legally Diamond Bus Ltd (fleetname Diamond Bus) operates under a single licence. The Hansons and Central Buses licences have, I assume, been surrendered.

Assuming they purchased the intellectual property rights they could use the names as brands (in the way that Thandi Coaches (Red) Ltd uses Thandi Coaches, Evergreen and Bowen) but I'm not aware that they do so.

As an occasional visitor (though not currently) to the West Midlands I would have to say that I have always found the presentation of Diamond vehicles externally to be poor - the livery doesn't help - though it has improved with the newer vehicles.

Hansons of Stourbridge & Central Buses are no longer active companies registered at Companies House. Diamond Bus does not actively use these trading names.

Diamond Buses are normally presented far better and cleaner inside than buses operated on the same routes by National Express West Midlands whose standards leave a lot to be desired very few have out of date Metros, graffiti, litter or etchings commonly found on buses of NXWM.

 

[richardjones21]

I know we've drifted from the original subject topic (so perhaps the mods need to split the Diamond posts away to form a separate thread) but there are a number of highly subjective views and some factual inaccuracies.

First of all, it is fair to say that whilst not knowing the gentleman, Simon Dunn has fashioned a profitable business and for that, credit should be given. It is also right to point out that he engages with the enthusiast fraternity, notably on the WM bus photo forum, where he takes time to answer questions and refer to concerns. Not many senior industry figures would do that, so credit where it's due. Rotala has also invested in new vehicles, whether it be Mellor Stratas, Streetlites or Streetdecks - perhaps not everyone's preferred choices but they have spent money on fuel efficient vehicles.

However, the idea that the Rotala business under its various guises (e.g Preston Bus, Hallmark, Diamond NW, Diamond WM/Worcs) is some peerless exemplar of the bus industry is simply laughable. Even Bob Dunn recognises the issues that they have experienced in taking on the Bolton business.

In late 2016, the WM/Worcs business appeared in front of the TC who said "I am clear that on too many occasions the company’s service has fallen far short of the required standards. After continued issues during 2017, they were again in front of the TC who whilst acknowledging the "good repute" of the company and it's TM said "It is clear, however, that these efforts have not yet fed through to produce services of a reliability (in some areas at least) which passengers have the right to expect. I will ask DVSA to continue to keep Diamond Bus Ltd’s services under observation. The company should be in no doubt that the reliability of its services must improve further.” The TC said that the public of Kidderminster had been "poorly served". In that background, it is perhaps not surprising that the views of passengers are low.

The statement that Diamond were pioneers of mobile/smartphone ticketing is factually untrue. Both First and Arriva were trialling and implementing mobile ticketing in 2013/4 - well ahead of Rotala.

I do hope that Rotala in their various incarnations do manage to improve the level of service. They clearly do have some dedicated, hard working staff; one particular Diamond NW journey I experienced in Dec 2018 was possibly the best driven journey I've had in many years and there are some things in which they should be congratulated (such as they new vehicle investment). However, the overall quality is below average and this is shown in objective metrics (DVSA monitoring), subjective metrics (personal experience) and customer surveys.

TheGrandWazoo is wrong Diamond Bus was the first operator in The West Midands to introduce and accept mobile ticketing.

First & Arriva were not the first companies to use mobile ticketing within The West Midlands County.

Diamond Bus also pioneered the acceptance of the smart TfWM Swift card and worked in partnership with TfWM to accept the smart card long before National Express West Midlands did.

Although mentioned by TheGrandWazoo my posts do not refer to Diamond Bus North West Limited in any way which is a completely separate legal entity and of no interest. The are specifically about Diamond Bus Limited which began as The Birmingham Coach Company in 1986 and has traded as Diamond Bus from shortly after.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

TheGrandWazoo is wrong Diamond Bus was the first operator in The West Midands to introduce and accept mobile ticketing.

First & Arriva were not the first companies to use mobile ticketing within The West Midlands County.

Diamond Bus also pioneered the acceptance of the smart TfWM Swift card and worked in partnership with TfWM to accept the smart card long before National Express West Midlands did.

Although mentioned by TheGrandWazoo my posts do not refer to Diamond Bus North West Limited in any way which is a completely separate legal entity and of no interest. The are specifically about Diamond Bus Limited which began as The Birmingham Coach Company in 1986 and has traded as Diamond Bus from shortly after.

More an indication that many other bus companies were well ahead of Diamond across the UK. Perhaps Diamond were the first to introduce in a relatively small geographic area but on an industry basis, they were some way behind. Arriva were there in 2009, being acknowledged at the 2010 Bus Awards.

I think we all recognise your geographic limitations.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Wessex had been ran into the ground over a number of years, Selling was just trying to salvage what they could from it. Looking back now I bet stagecoach wish they hadn't purchased the few routes and the few knackered buses!

I agree Bristol isn't easy and Stagecoach seem to be finding this out too. And that is most likely why Mr Dunn decided to focus on the West Midlands where he could see more of an opportunity.

To be honest, Rotala had been extremely complacent in their Wessex operation, typified by poor service reliability as highlighted in the UWE SU "The Only Way is Wessex?" consultation results. First decided to launch a strategy that fundamentally outmanoeuvred Rotala, and the subsequent loss of tenders meant that the business was no longer viable and led to the close down, with sale of the remnants of the business to Stagecoach as a way of mitigating exit costs.

 

[Stan Drews]

Hansons & Central Buses are now part of its current operator consequently the vehicles are not in a previous operators livery

Hansons of Stourbridge & Central Buses are no longer active companies registered at Companies House. Diamond Bus does not actively use these trading names.

If Hansons and Central Buses are no longer active companies, I assume the relevant Operator’s Licences were surrendered. Therefore the buses being discussed are now running on a different Operators Licence, so if they remain in the livery of their previous operator, they would indeed fall under the category being discussed on that thread?

 

[richardjones21]

More an indication that many other bus companies were well ahead of Diamond across the UK. Perhaps Diamond were the first to introduce in a relatively small geographic area but on an industry basis, they were some way behind. Arriva were there in 2009, being acknowledged at the 2010 Bus Awards.

I think we all recognise your geographic limitations.

I am rather surprised to see the 2nd City of the UK with an customer base of 1.1 million and an operating area stretching from Lichfield in Staffordshire to Worcester in Worcestershire around 60 miles with Coventry & Warwickshire also served to the east as a small geographical area by @TheGrandWazoo .

Within the largest conurbation Diamomd Bus were far advanced than any other bus company for smart ticketing, bus tracking, working with local authorities in partnership and continue to be ahead of all operators in the West Midlands today as an operator whose standards other members of the industry should follow a major factor which should be acknowledged by @TheGrandWazoo.

It should be of note that although he acknowledged Arriva this operator failed to succeed in The West Midands County as have Go Ahead, First & Stagecoach whilst Diamond Bus has set the benchmark for success for over 34 years.

 

[Pat1105]

Please check again National Express West Midlands only operate 4H between Hayley Green & Halesowen ONLY the only operator operating via Gorsty Hill & Coombes Wood from Halesowen to Blackheath is Diamond Bus unless you know something I dont @Pat1105 ?

Ahh, apologies again Richard. I misread the timetable.

Diamond Bus also pioneered the acceptance of the smart TfWM Swift card and worked in partnership with TfWM to accept the smart card long before National Express West Midlands did.

NX and Diamond pioneered Swift at the same time, it wasn’t Diamond first. And anyway, why wouldn’t they pioneer a product on the region’s largest operator, with a much larger customer base?
The only thing Diamond had before NX was contactless payments.

 

[richardjones21]

Ahh, apologies again Richard. I misread the timetable.

NX and Diamond pioneered Swift at the same time, it wasn’t Diamond first. And anyway, why wouldn’t they pioneer a product on the region’s largest operator, with a much larger customer base?
The only thing Diamond had before NX was contactless payments.

No @Pat1105 you are wrong again I was part of the user testing & development group when it was launched & Swift could only be used on Diamond Bus and certain other operators and not NXWM.

National Express West Midlands was developing its own smartcard at the time and was not involved in the development at Network West Midlands. The inital roll out to the public was validiity only on Diamond and certain other operators not NXWM and offered a discount on single fares on use of the card.

National Express West Midlands abandent its own scheme and then joined Swift a much later than Diamond. Again having worked on the Swift project from the start I am happy to give you the corect timeline of the development of the product. Diamond Bus was the first operator to use Swift.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I am rather surprised to see the 2nd City of the UK with an customer base of 1.1 million and an operating area stretching from Lichfield in Staffordshire to Worcester in Worcestershire around 60 miles with Coventry & Warwickshire also served to the east as a small geographical area by @TheGrandWazoo .

Within the largest conurbation Diamomd Bus were far advanced than any other bus company for smart ticketing, bus tracking, working with local authorities in partnership and continue to be ahead of all operators in the West Midlands today as an operator whose standards other members of the industry should follow a major factor which should be acknowledged by @TheGrandWazoo.

It should be of note that although he acknowledged Arriva this operator failed to succeed in The West Midands County as have Go Ahead, First & Stagecoach whilst Diamond Bus has set the benchmark for success for over 34 years.

Perhaps Diamond were the first to introduce in a relatively small geographic area but on an industry basis, they were some way behind.

The West Midlands is a relatively small geographic area in relation to the rest of the UK and the UK bus industry. The word "relatively" is crucial.

I didn't say Arriva succeeded in the West Midlands but they were streets ahead in rolling out mobile ticketing technology. I agree that Arriva Midlands was a failure, and that Go West Midlands and First Midland Red also failed.

Not quite sure that Diamond has set the benchmark for over 34 years. Granted it is the direct successor to Geoff Howle's Birmingham Coach Co but as he sold to in 2005 to Go Ahead (who failed) then there is a bit of a gap. Credit to Simon Dunn for purchasing that business and developing it.

 

[richardjones21]

The West Midlands is a relatively small geographic area in relation to the rest of the UK and the UK bus industry. The word "relatively" is crucial.

I didn't say Arriva succeeded in the West Midlands but they were streets ahead in rolling out mobile ticketing technology. I agree that Arriva Midlands was a failure, and that Go West Midlands and First Midland Red also failed.

Not quite sure that Diamond has set the benchmark for over 34 years. Granted it is the direct successor to Geoff Howle's Birmingham Coach Co but as he sold to in 2005 to Go Ahead (who failed) then there is a bit of a gap. Credit to Simon Dunn for purchasing that business and developing it.

@TheGrandWazoo should note there has not been a "bit of a gap" I am aware of.

The Birmingham Bus Company trading as Diamond Bus became Go West Midlands trading as Diamond Bus which became Diamond Bus Limited under Rotala.⁰⁰

Diamond Bus has been at forefront of innovation as the West Midlands premiere Independent operator setting the agenda for local bus services especially Service 16 which it has operated sucessfully throughout the last 34 years.

Therefore @TheGrandWazoo what "gap" has there been in 34 years of Leyland Nationals, Dennis Lance's, Cadets, Dennis Darts, Solos, E200s and now under the brilliant management led by the Simon Dunn ; unequalled in the industry; brand new Wright Streetlites & Mellors to a high specification.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

@TheGrandWazoo should note there has not been a "bit of a gap" I am aware of.

The Birmingham Bus Company trading as Diamond Bus became Go West Midlands trading as Diamond Bus which became Diamond Bus Limited under Rotala.⁰⁰

Birmingham Coach Co was indeed Go West Midlands for c2.5 years so if they failed....

It should be of note that although he acknowledged Arriva this operator failed to succeed in The West Midands County as have Go Ahead, First & Stagecoach whilst Diamond Bus has set the benchmark for success for over 34 years.

...it would seem difficult to have set the benchmark for success for an unbroken 34 years. Hence the gap!

Therefore @TheGrandWazoo what "gap" has there been in 34 years of Leyland Nationals, Dennis Lance's, Cadets, Dennis Darts, Solos, E200s and now under the brilliant management led by the Simon Dunn ; unequalled in the industry; brand new Wright Streetlites & Mellors to a high specification.

Unequalled? Good chap as he is, he's no Peter Hendy, tbh. And the vehicles aren't really high specification when compared to even the NXWM Platinum fleet, let alone other operators around the UK.

 

[richardjones21]

Birmingham Coach Co was indeed Go West Midlands for c2.5 years so if they failed....



...it would seem difficult to have set the benchmark for success for an unbroken 34 years. Hence the gap!



Unequalled? Good chap as he is, he's no Peter Hendy, tbh. And the vehicles aren't really high specification when compared to even the NXWM Platinum fleet, let alone other operators around the UK.

The NXWM Platinum buses are the worst vehicles ever to hit the streets of the West Midlands. They are like travelling about in a dungeon with seats designed as a medieval torture instrument.

Luckily Diamond Bus provides an superior alternative on Services 4H, 16 & 50 which the NXWM Platinums currently operate on.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

The NXWM Platinum buses are the worst vehicles ever to hit the streets of the West Midlands. They are like travelling about in a dungeon with seats designed as a medieval torture instrument.

Luckily Diamond Bus provides an superior alternative on Services 4H, 16 & 50 which the NXWM Platinums currently operate on.

The worst..... Evidently an urban 90 seated MPD is better! Well, it’s a view..

 

[richardjones21]

The worst..... Evidently an urban 90 seated MPD is better! Well, it’s a view..

Urban 90 seats are good for the posture and pluss point for many years on Diamond Bus on the many ex Pete's Travel Denis Darts which have recently left the fleet of Diamond.