2nd VSE fail at enhanced.

[yomper11]

Hi,

I did my stage 2 for arriva yesterday and passed everything to enhanced apart from the combined part of the VSE which I only passed to national ( I was told ). That's my second VSE fail, so I know I cannot apply to TOC's that use enhanced again however I had also applied to GA but am sitting at the waiting point following my SJT. Am I right in thinking, because they dont use the VSE, I can contact them and let them know I have passed everything else to enhanced and therefore they can progress my application or have I got that wrong.?

Thanks.

 

[strangemonk]

Hi,

I did my stage 2 for arriva yesterday and passed everything to enhanced apart from the combined part of the VSE which I only passed to national ( I was told ). That's my second VSE fail, so I know I cannot apply to TOC's that use enhanced again however I had also applied to GA but am sitting at the waiting point following my SJT. Am I right in thinking, because they dont use the VSE, I can contact them and let them know I have passed everything else to enhanced and therefore they can progress my application or have I got that wrong.?

Thanks.

GA use enhanced for stage 1 and national for stage 2 and no VSE for the initial stage only a SJT

 

[ComUtoR]

Did they confirm that as a 'fail' and will count against your lives ? Someone posted that you can keep taking the test as many times you like as long as you don't actually fail at any point. You have 'passed' each time to standard so haven't ever failed the VSE. I'd be interested to hear the official line on this.

 

[yomper11]

GA use enhanced for stage 1 and national for stage 2 and no VSE for the initial stage only a SJT

Thanks for that, so assumedly I can contact them ( somehow as their live chat doesn't work and they never appear to answer their emails...) and they can update my file.

 

[strangemonk]

Thanks for that, so assumedly I can contact them ( somehow as their live chat doesn't work and they never appear to answer their emails...) and they can update my file.

If you can imagine they have thousands like you doing the exact same thing they don't have the capacity to respond.

Have to be patient in the railway for careers

 

[yomper11]

I failed an online VSE about 4 years ago as well as this so just wondered if that's both lives used as it seemed a bit muddled for the OPC lady who thought I could carry on with GA application as she wasnt sure, given it was a national pass I got the other day but not enhanced, anyone help?

 

[strangemonk]

I failed an online VSE about 4 years ago as well as this so just wondered if that's both lives used as it seemed a bit muddled for the OPC lady who thought I could carry on with GA application as she wasnt sure, given it was a national pass I got the other day but not enhanced, anyone help?

VSE is not part of the train driver assessments so you haven't lost a life there some TOCs do it and most don't crossrail do it, GA dosent.

If you pass to the national standard it's not a fail but it means you haven't met the standard of that specific company so you have both your lives in tact but in 6 months you can apply for GA again and if you pass again to the national standard you can't ever apply for them but you still have both your lives.

To add GA require enhanced for stage 1 and national for stage 2 including MMI.

 

[yomper11]

VSE is not part of the train driver assessments so you haven't lost a life there some TOCs do it and most don't crossrail do it, GA dosent.

If you pass to the national standard it's not a fail but it means you haven't met the standard of that specific company so you have both your lives in tact but in 6 months you can apply for GA again and if you pass again to the national standard you can't ever apply for them but you still have both your lives.

To add GA require enhanced for stage 1 and national for stage 2 including MMI.

Thank you again for your answer, I failed for ARL but I still have an active application with GA that's at the " waiting after the SJT" stage, they sent the generic email asking if I had done stage 1 and 2 back in may, which, at that point i hadnt, so now that I've passed everything to enhanced with ARL and , as you pointed out, the VSE isnt one of their tests I wondered if I will be allowed to progress with them to MMI , I'm not trying to be presumptuous, I do realise it's unlikely but it would seem logical to do so if the positions are available.

 

[Tom Quinne]

Wouldn’t it be better to rise or lower the standard to the level of enhanced or standard and cut out all the uncertainty having two pass levels brings?

 

[Teddyward]

Thank you again for your answer, I failed for ARL but I still have an active application with GA that's at the " waiting after the SJT" stage, they sent the generic email asking if I had done stage 1 and 2 back in may, which, at that point i hadnt, so now that I've passed everything to enhanced with ARL and , as you pointed out, the VSE isnt one of their tests I wondered if I will be allowed to progress with them to MMI , I'm not trying to be presumptuous, I do realise it's unlikely but it would seem logical to do so if the positions are available.

I failed VSE with ARL. Did my mmi with a FOC. Now driving at AGA.

 

[yomper11]

I failed VSE with ARL. Did my mmi with a FOC. Now driving at AGA.

Was that within the 6 months as, if I read some of the replies right, I havent failed with GA so it doesnt count.

Thank you.

 

[GJL9916]

Hi,

I did my stage 2 for arriva yesterday and passed everything to enhanced apart from the combined part of the VSE which I only passed to national ( I was told ). That's my second VSE fail, so I know I cannot apply to TOC's that use enhanced again however I had also applied to GA but am sitting at the waiting point following my SJT. Am I right in thinking, because they dont use the VSE, I can contact them and let them know I have passed everything else to enhanced and therefore they can progress my application or have I got that wrong.?

Thanks.

That’s not correct. As long as you pass to standard level which is the only official pass mark then in theory as long as there is 6 months in between sitting the tests you can take them many times as you like. This is unless the particular TOC you applied to has a rule about failing to meet their specific enhanced pass mark two times however I’m yet to hear of one that has that rule and even if they did then it would only be that one particular TOC you’d be fine with the rest.

It’s only when you fail to national standard level that you start losing lives.

 

[yomper11]

That’s not correct. As long as you pass to standard level which is the only official pass mark then in theory as long as there is 6 months in between sitting the tests you can take them many times as you like. This is unless the particular TOC you applied to has a rule about failing to meet their specific enhanced pass mark two times however I’m yet to hear of one that has that rule and even if they did then it would only be that one particular TOC you’d be fine with the rest.

It’s only when you fail to national standard level that you start losing lives.

Thank you all who have taken time to reply, I was in the dark as to whether I now have to wait 6 months to.proceed ( or re apply ) with GA or can carry on now I have the required standard for them.

 

[strangemonk]

I failed VSE with ARL. Did my mmi with a FOC. Now driving at AGA.

How long did it take from application to DMI with AGA?

 

[Stigy]

VSE is not part of the train driver assessments so you haven't lost a life there some TOCs do it and most don't crossrail do it, GA dosent.
.

This indeed should be the case, however, strangely the OPC have said the VSE does count towards the two lives. I still fail to see how to be honest, but either way, as the VSE is only used in conjunction with the enhanced standard, if it does count, the same rules would apply if a candidate met the national standard in that they can still apply for TOCs etc who use the national standard.

 

[OneLowban]

How long did it take from application to DMI with AGA?

It was a month for me, applied in June 2018.

 

[train_lover]

I think it's a disgrace that tocs are using all these different tests with different pass scores. The RSSB should come down on this and demand that tocs only use the same tests and same scores.

 

[ComUtoR]

I think it's a disgrace that tocs are using all these different tests with different pass scores. The RSSB should come down on this and demand that tocs only use the same tests and same scores.

It was the RSSB who changed the rules to allow for TOCs to implement their own testing.

If we went back to the old way, recruitment would be harder as you are increasing the pool of potential employees. It also serves no real purpose as the TOC can, and still will, choose the highest scoring candidates. At least this way, knowing that you have an enhanced or national pass that there is a degree of transparency in the process.

What would also happen is that if there was a new 'National Standard' that all must meet and are all based on the same scores. The bar will just move higher and that would be a detriment to the employee.

 

[Teddyward]

How long did it take from application to DMI with AGA?

Just under 3 months

 

[Quin79]

It was the RSSB who changed the rules to allow for TOCs to implement their own testing.

If we went back to the old way, recruitment would be harder as you are increasing the pool of potential employees. It also serves no real purpose as the TOC can, and still will, choose the highest scoring candidates. At least this way, knowing that you have an enhanced or national pass that there is a degree of transparency in the process.

What would also happen is that if there was a new 'National Standard' that all must meet and are all based on the same scores. The bar will just move higher and that would be a detriment to the employee.

So if you are held in a talent pool so they choose people who scored more points in the tests first?

 

[Stigy]

So if you are held in a talent pool so they choose people who scored more points in the tests first?

The scores for the psychometric tests generally aren’t fixed I’d imagine. It varies depending on the average I believe.

In terms of talent pools, people will usually be plucked from the pool based on interview scores probably. That’s generally the fairest way of doing things rather than simply dishing random people out.

 

[Quin79]

The scores for the psychometric tests generally aren’t fixed I’d imagine. It varies depending on the average I believe.

In terms of talent pools, people will usually be plucked from the pool based on interview scores probably. That’s generally the fairest way of doing things rather than simply dishing random people out.

So not a definite then? I thought a pass was a pass and they'd recruit whose been waiting the longest first? Seems I may be wrong then

 

[ComUtoR]

So if you are held in a talent pool so they choose people who scored more points in the tests first?

Sure, why not.

If your in a talent pool you are at the mercy of the TOC. They can literally pick and choose whomever they wish and for whatever reason. I hate talent pools and I think they are a detriment to the industry. A TOC has to be able to sift candidates. In the interest of fairness you would do this based on specific criteria. Generally this is how TOC recruitment works. The DMI is scored (at least ours is) and you can sift your candidates by who scores the highest.

Sticking everyone with a suitable pass into a talent pool doesn't help. You could have a low score and never get a place because everyone else keeps scoring higher than you. I would rather have a Standard/Enhanced pass system where everyone with a standard/enhanced is then treated equally at the next stage.

I speak to Trainees on a VERY regular basis. There are those who have never even heard of a 'Talent pool' I've even spoken to the person who sends out the rejection emails to people. The system is ruthless.

 

[Quin79]

Sure, why not.

If your in a talent pool you are at the mercy of the TOC. They can literally pick and choose whomever they wish and for whatever reason. I hate talent pools and I think they are a detriment to the industry. A TOC has to be able to sift candidates. In the interest of fairness you would do this based on specific criteria. Generally this is how TOC recruitment works. The DMI is scored (at least ours is) and you can sift your candidates by who scores the highest.

Sticking everyone with a suitable pass into a talent pool doesn't help. You could have a low score and never get a place because everyone else keeps scoring higher than you. I would rather have a Standard/Enhanced pass system where everyone with a standard/enhanced is then treated equally at the next stage.

I speak to Trainees on a VERY regular basis. There are those who have never even heard of a 'Talent pool' I've even spoken to the person who sends out the rejection emails to people. The system is ruthless.

Very interesting. Thanks for your input. Hopefully will achieve a good score at DMI and MMI that will hopefully put me in with a good chance of landing one of these coveted positions

 

[ComUtoR]

Do your best at each stage and stand out at DMI level. The DMI is where you will get the chance to become an employee. No pass is going to matter unless the Interviewers decide you will fit into the depot and that they will take you on.

The DMI is very important. Until the DMI you are pretty much just a number in the system.

 

[Tom Quinne]

The bottom line is prepare a knock out CV/app, wait....practice the tests they send you until your happy...get a good nights sleep the night before, arrive nice and early, relax and do your best...wait...wait and wait some more.

Repeat for the interview or additional tests.

Asking here how the process works, how long people have been waiting etc won’t help you pass, nor speed up the process.

HR will work as slowly as they want, your but a number in a huge pool of numbers to pick up and throw away at their will without a seconds thought to your stress, dreams or hopes you have - they couldn’t care less.

Would you care if you where working under changing needs weekly, often having to repeat your work after another manpower review, working through 1000s of apps for a job paying 3 times what you earn ?

Back in the days before forums we applied on paper, sent the apps off and waited, if we were lucky we’d get a job if not then it was back to square one, you where on your own.

I still have an app for Wales and West “live” from the late 90s, they said they would reply to all applicants the outcome of their apps - well I’m still waiting....

 

[yomper11]

I've just had it confirmed that my scores have all passed GA stage 1 and 2 so now waiting for an MMI.....but theres no driver positions currently available..... ..