317/7 questions

Status
Not open for further replies.

387star

On Moderation
Joined
16 Nov 2009
Messages
6,208
I was on a London Overground 317/7 today

Was a refurbished unit with quite possibly the most luxurious seats I have ever seen on any train yet alone an inner suburban one quite bizarre

Anyway am I correct in thinking the toilets have been shut off.... Saw what looked like a massive disabled bog ?

Secondly in areas of the train there are strange counters what are they for? Were they for catering equipment when it was the stansted express?

Incidentally London liverpool street is a very grand station... I assume it must have the oldest average train age from any London terminus. Think only 360s and 379s are post privatisation
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

jopsuk

Veteran Member
Joined
13 May 2008
Messages
12,588
the counter things are docks for the trolleys from the Stansted Express days, yes. Toilets on LO locked out of use as it's a metro service and the toilets would likely quickly become a state with no resource for cleaning or topping up the tanks.
 

387star

On Moderation
Joined
16 Nov 2009
Messages
6,208
This is what I meant
 

Attachments

  • IMG-20160429-WA0014.jpg
    IMG-20160429-WA0014.jpg
    74.2 KB · Views: 102

MrPIC

Member
Joined
30 May 2015
Messages
417
Those units should no way have gone to LOROL, should have stayed with GA for dedicated CBG-SSD or CBG-LST. Wasted they are on inners.
 

Skimble19

Established Member
Joined
12 Dec 2009
Messages
1,423
Location
London
I cannot believe any /7s have gone to London Overground... What an absolute waste..
 

Mikey C

Established Member
Joined
11 Feb 2013
Messages
4,401
Incidentally London liverpool street is a very grand station... I assume it must have the oldest average train age from any London terminus. Think only 360s and 379s are post privatisation

A lot of that is down to timing. Liverpool Street was completely rebuilt and modernised in the late 80s, and had a lot of new trains delivered in the 80s and early 90s, hence it went into privatization with a modern fleet with no slam door trains to replace.
 

jopsuk

Veteran Member
Joined
13 May 2008
Messages
12,588
Those units should no way have gone to LOROL, should have stayed with GA for dedicated CBG-SSD or CBG-LST. Wasted they are on inners.

they had higher leasing costs than the rest of the fleet, so when AGA decided they didn't need the entire 317 fleet they were obvious units to go off lease. Then the split with the Enfield/Chingford Overground happened. This made diagrams for both operations less efficient in terms of the number of units, so LO took on the only units avilable. AGA weren't about to pay higher leasing costs just because it makes sense...

As far as I understand the AGA services run by 317s, there's interworking between Cambridge (CBG) and Hertford East (HFE) services at least. I get the impression that off-peak at least Bishops Stortford (BIS)- Stratford (SRA) services are completely separate diagrams. Is Cambridge-Stansted (SSD)interworked with London Liverpool Street (LST) services? Certainly needs more than one unit, it's over an hour return. I don't think there's enough platforms or units for LST-CBG and LST-HFE to be diagrammed without interworking.

if platforms were not an issue, how many units would it take to run the current LST-CBG (and beyond) peak timetable with no interworking with HFE and SSD? As far as I know Stansted Express needs 9 trains (18 units) in service?
 

306024

Established Member
Joined
23 Jan 2013
Messages
3,135
Location
East Anglia
The Cambridge - Stansted service on Monday to Friday uses two units that would otherwise be spare at Cambridge between the peaks. It doesn't run during the peaks as the units are on Liverpool Street trains. So no additional units are required.

The Stortford - Stratford services are mostly self contained, with a changeover around 20.15 at Stratford on Monday to Friday to provide a maintenance link to Ilford Car Sheds.

Stansted Express is indeed 18 units.

Platform capacity at Liverpool St does sometimes force units off what would appear to be a more logical turnround, as does the requirement to provide links to Ilford for maintenance.

To work out how many units would be required for self contained workings, have a go at diagramming using real time trains. The platform workings give you enough clues to work it out yourself ;)

Finally the 317/7s don't have that many seats in total. Far better for LOROL passengers to stand on short journeys than AGA passengers having to stand for longer. It is simply a short term fix until LOROL get their new units.
 

MrPIC

Member
Joined
30 May 2015
Messages
417
Oh I know exactly why GA don't have them and LOROL do, but it still seems like a poor effort on everyone's part especially the ROSCO.

Do LOROL have a shortage? I often see an 8 car GA 317 doing Cheshunts in the peak, and also another 8 car 317 on the GE in the peak. GA seem to have units coming out their ears!
 

306024

Established Member
Joined
23 Jan 2013
Messages
3,135
Location
East Anglia
Do LOROL have a shortage? I often see an 8 car GA 317 doing Cheshunts in the peak, and also another 8 car 317 on the GE in the peak. GA seem to have units coming out their ears!

You will see GA units on a peak Cheshunt working, not all the diagrams could be split completely without platforming problems at Liverpool St and / or considerable extra cost. It will be interesting to see if this continues once LOROL get their new stock or whether the timetable will change to avoid using GA 317s

Also an 8 car 321 diagram is now covered by 317s on the GEML due to additional 321 maintenance requirements. The number of spare 317s did increase once the 317/7s were bought back into service.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top