317/7 questions

[387star]

I was on a London Overground 317/7 today

Was a refurbished unit with quite possibly the most luxurious seats I have ever seen on any train yet alone an inner suburban one quite bizarre

Anyway am I correct in thinking the toilets have been shut off.... Saw what looked like a massive disabled bog ?

Secondly in areas of the train there are strange counters what are they for? Were they for catering equipment when it was the stansted express?

Incidentally London liverpool street is a very grand station... I assume it must have the oldest average train age from any London terminus. Think only 360s and 379s are post privatisation

 

[jopsuk]

the counter things are docks for the trolleys from the Stansted Express days, yes. Toilets on LO locked out of use as it's a metro service and the toilets would likely quickly become a state with no resource for cleaning or topping up the tanks.

 

[387star]

This is what I meant

 

[MrPIC]

Those units should no way have gone to LOROL, should have stayed with GA for dedicated CBG-SSD or CBG-LST. Wasted they are on inners.

 

[Skimble19]

I cannot believe any /7s have gone to London Overground... What an absolute waste..

 

[Mikey C]

Incidentally London liverpool street is a very grand station... I assume it must have the oldest average train age from any London terminus. Think only 360s and 379s are post privatisation

A lot of that is down to timing. Liverpool Street was completely rebuilt and modernised in the late 80s, and had a lot of new trains delivered in the 80s and early 90s, hence it went into privatization with a modern fleet with no slam door trains to replace.

 

[jopsuk]

Those units should no way have gone to LOROL, should have stayed with GA for dedicated CBG-SSD or CBG-LST. Wasted they are on inners.

they had higher leasing costs than the rest of the fleet, so when AGA decided they didn't need the entire 317 fleet they were obvious units to go off lease. Then the split with the Enfield/Chingford Overground happened. This made diagrams for both operations less efficient in terms of the number of units, so LO took on the only units avilable. AGA weren't about to pay higher leasing costs just because it makes sense...

As far as I understand the AGA services run by 317s, there's interworking between Cambridge (CBG) and Hertford East (HFE) services at least. I get the impression that off-peak at least Bishops Stortford (BIS)- Stratford (SRA) services are completely separate diagrams. Is Cambridge-Stansted (SSD)interworked with London Liverpool Street (LST) services? Certainly needs more than one unit, it's over an hour return. I don't think there's enough platforms or units for LST-CBG and LST-HFE to be diagrammed without interworking.

if platforms were not an issue, how many units would it take to run the current LST-CBG (and beyond) peak timetable with no interworking with HFE and SSD? As far as I know Stansted Express needs 9 trains (18 units) in service?

 

[306024]

The Cambridge - Stansted service on Monday to Friday uses two units that would otherwise be spare at Cambridge between the peaks. It doesn't run during the peaks as the units are on Liverpool Street trains. So no additional units are required.

The Stortford - Stratford services are mostly self contained, with a changeover around 20.15 at Stratford on Monday to Friday to provide a maintenance link to Ilford Car Sheds.

Stansted Express is indeed 18 units.

Platform capacity at Liverpool St does sometimes force units off what would appear to be a more logical turnround, as does the requirement to provide links to Ilford for maintenance.

To work out how many units would be required for self contained workings, have a go at diagramming using real time trains. The platform workings give you enough clues to work it out yourself

Finally the 317/7s don't have that many seats in total. Far better for LOROL passengers to stand on short journeys than AGA passengers having to stand for longer. It is simply a short term fix until LOROL get their new units.

 

[MrPIC]

Oh I know exactly why GA don't have them and LOROL do, but it still seems like a poor effort on everyone's part especially the ROSCO.

Do LOROL have a shortage? I often see an 8 car GA 317 doing Cheshunts in the peak, and also another 8 car 317 on the GE in the peak. GA seem to have units coming out their ears!

 

[306024]

Do LOROL have a shortage? I often see an 8 car GA 317 doing Cheshunts in the peak, and also another 8 car 317 on the GE in the peak. GA seem to have units coming out their ears!

You will see GA units on a peak Cheshunt working, not all the diagrams could be split completely without platforming problems at Liverpool St and / or considerable extra cost. It will be interesting to see if this continues once LOROL get their new stock or whether the timetable will change to avoid using GA 317s

Also an 8 car 321 diagram is now covered by 317s on the GEML due to additional 321 maintenance requirements. The number of spare 317s did increase once the 317/7s were bought back into service.