332s post-Crossrail

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Waverley125

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so, word on the street seems to be that when Crossrail is done, HX will be absorbed, with some trains running fast from Paddington to HX from the core rather than into the high level platforms. If so, this obviously leaves the 332s redundant, and free to a good home.

The obvious place for me is Leeds, with Neville Hill already looking after the 333s, concentrating the entire family there would seem to be sensible, especially with the need to operate more EMUs out of Neville Hill after the conversion of both Leeds-Huddersfield, Leeds-Selby and Leeds-York stoppers to half-hourly service.

Moving the 332s north (obviously with a refresh and 3+2 seating) would leave Northern with 16 333s, 9 332/1s and 5 332/2s. The 2's could obviously go on the A&W, where 5 coaches is the effective maximum length, and where demand is greatest, with the rest being spread out over the A&W, Huddersfield & East Leeds lines.

Additionally, we'd still have the 3 321/9s and the 5 322s, giving a total EMU fleet size of 38.

Can anyone better at diagramming than me work out whether you could run all current EMU diagrams, plus Leeds-York, Leeds-Huddersfield and Leeds-Selby as half-hourly with 38 trainsets?
 
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sprinterguy

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I agree wholeheartedly with the idea of sending them to Neville Hill to work alongside the 333s. However, I would see them replace the 321s and 322s on Leeds to Doncaster and the Airedale services they operate. That still leaves enough units, with high utilisation, to operate an electrified Harrogate circle.

I don't think you'd be able to squeeze enough capacity out of a fleet of thirty units as I have outlined to also operate Leeds to Huddersfield though, even though it is only a couple of diagrams: Depending on how far Transpennine North electrification extends (Hull, etc), there might be a need for a reasonable number of EMUs above the sum total of 332s and 333s anyway.
 

ushawk

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I thought only the Heathrow Connect was being absorbed by Crossrail and i didnt know there were going to be "fast" crossrail services.

If there are to be fast services, then the only real place they should go to is Northern and the 360's from the HC to go to Greater Anglia.
 

tbtc

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I thought only the Heathrow Connect was being absorbed by Crossrail and i didnt know there were going to be "fast" crossrail services
As things stand there are no planned changes to HEX and nothing official to say that the plush 332s will be replaced by toiletless Crossrail stock (nor that there will be any "fast" running on Crossrail).

However AIUI HEX paths are only secured for another few years, which leaves the possibility that this *could* happen.

As for the OP's ideas, it really depends on what gets electrified (e.g. plenty suggestions that Hull will be wired, but as things stand it won't be). Since TPE North electrification is mainly about longer distance trains (of Northern's "local" services, only a couple of Leeds - Huddersfield duties will be replaced by EMUs), so there's more need for local EMUs west of the Pennines (e.g. Liverpool - Wigan).
 

IanXC

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As for the OP's ideas, it really depends on what gets electrified (e.g. plenty suggestions that Hull will be wired, but as things stand it won't be). Since TPE North electrification is mainly about longer distance trains (of Northern's "local" services, only a couple of Leeds - Huddersfield duties will be replaced by EMUs), so there's more need for local EMUs west of the Pennines (e.g. Liverpool - Wigan).
If Hull is wired, there are:

Leeds-Huddersfield
Leeds-York
Leeds-Selby (possibly extended to Hull)
York-Hull

So I suspect at least 10 additional local EMUs would be required.
 

tbtc

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If Hull is wired, there are:

Leeds-Huddersfield
Leeds-York
Leeds-Selby (possibly extended to Hull)
York-Hull

So I suspect at least 10 additional local EMUs would be required.
That would tie in to the 332 numbers then (maybe allowing the 321s to move elsewhere), but at the moment any talk of further electrification is just speculative (however logical it would be to add wiring to places like Hull).

There's a danger that if fiction is repeated often enough it becomes treated as fact (e.g. "Pacers can't run on Third Rail", when clearly they can)
 

BR Blue

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The only info I`ve seen is an idea for Heathrow express services to share the crossrail tunnels. Allowing destinations beyond Paddington to be reached.

The Crossrail website shows HX services running alongside its services. Four of each per peak hour.
 

swt_passenger

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The only info I've seen is an idea for Heathrow express services to share the crossrail tunnels. Allowing destinations beyond Paddington to be reached.
The future proposals are laid out in the London and SE RUS, and they ARE about HEx services being replaced by Crossrail. They discuss the possibility of some airport services running on the fast lines or being skip stop west of Paddington in the offpeak, but all running on the slows in the peak.

To the extent that the information is detailed in the London and SE RUS, then it is an 'official' proposal.
 

Wolfie

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so, word on the street seems to be that when Crossrail is done, HX will be absorbed, with some trains running fast from Paddington to HX from the core rather than into the high level platforms. If so, this obviously leaves the 332s redundant, and free to a good home.

The obvious place for me is Leeds, with Neville Hill already looking after the 333s, concentrating the entire family there would seem to be sensible, especially with the need to operate more EMUs out of Neville Hill after the conversion of both Leeds-Huddersfield, Leeds-Selby and Leeds-York stoppers to half-hourly service.

Moving the 332s north (obviously with a refresh and 3+2 seating) would leave Northern with 16 333s, 9 332/1s and 5 332/2s. The 2's could obviously go on the A&W, where 5 coaches is the effective maximum length, and where demand is greatest, with the rest being spread out over the A&W, Huddersfield & East Leeds lines.

Additionally, we'd still have the 3 321/9s and the 5 322s, giving a total EMU fleet size of 38.

Can anyone better at diagramming than me work out whether you could run all current EMU diagrams, plus Leeds-York, Leeds-Huddersfield and Leeds-Selby as half-hourly with 38 trainsets?
I may be wrong but disregarding completely the issue of whether HEx is actually absorbed by Crossrail there is another issue. As far as I am aware the Class 332s are owned outright by HEx/BAA. As such DfT does not have the same leverage by any means about thier future usage. Of course, if HEx is withdrawn/absorbed BAA may be only too happy to sell the 332s to a rolling stick leasor.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Oh, I believe that BAA/HEx also own the 360s used on Heathrow Connect outright as well.

The future proposals are laid out in the London and SE RUS, and they ARE about HEx services being replaced by Crossrail. They discuss the possibility of some airport services running on the fast lines or being skip stop west of Paddington in the offpeak, but all running on the slows in the peak.

To the extent that the information is detailed in the London and SE RUS, then it is an 'official' proposal.
True BUT Hex have a 25 year track access agreement to use the Hayes & Harlington to Paddington tracks - this could not just be ripped up without compensation - and own the H&H to Heathrow section outright. What the RUS might LIKE to do and what is actually achieveable (without some very serious compensation!) may well be rather different.
 

tbtc

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Leeds-Huddersfield currently has an hourly stopper, and there's an overlap of service with the 'Grand Tour' and Leeds-Man Vic via Brighouse service.
At the moment the hourly Leeds - Huddersfield is the only one of those routes that would require DMUs to replace EMUs.

Fine, if they electrify through Brighouse and beyond, but as things stand Northern won't need lots more EMUs in Yorkshire. The numbers are really required west of the pennines.
 
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