3rd Rail corrosion - Durrington on Sea

[Why]

Posted a picture about 2-3 years ago and published on the forum then.

Used the south coast station today, noted the corrosion had got worse. It must run for 10 feet with just thin metal keeping it in place.

I just enjoy trains with no real knowledge so ask the following :

• Only ever seen this at Durrington, Is this unusual ?
• I assume its not safety critical? with shoe gear being in contact with 3rd rail think it could simply crumble and cause untold damage to a umit at speed?
• Is the track checked on say a weekly (?) basis?
• Would that rail date back to when the line was electrified i think around mid 1930s?

 

[kentuckytony]

Just my wild, uneducated guess, but that may just be primer or sealant flaking off, not real holes.

 

[randyrippley]

that looks pretty solid to me as well!

 

[Why]

I know a hole when i see one .... last time i noticed a crisp packet was lodged on the other side of the rail .... unless metal is transparent of course!!

 

[randyrippley]

I know a hole when i see one .... last time i noticed a crisp packet was lodged on the other side of the rail .... unless metal is transparent of course!!

maybe you did, but not on that bit of track
as suggested above, thats a coating flaking off, maybe galvanic zinc

 

[Why]

The picture does not do justice ...100% holes due to corrosion, anyone live near the station who can verify? Its Littlehampton bound platform, just before the passenger bridge

 

[Peter Mugridge]

We had a 3rd rail like that at Epsom; it was finally replaced a few years ago - after having been in a holed state for many years.

The one in the pictures above looks a lot worse than the one we had here, though. It very probably could collapse if it had enough of a whack in the right place.

 

[big all]

wouldnt say its as much a problem as it looks
yes probably needs replacing like yesterday
the head off the rail is quite substantial perhaps 25x 70mm and providing there is support each end with the odd bit off wed intact in between all that will happen is any weight off the shoes pressing down possibly 10kg at a guess will cause the head to "sag" until they equalise.

if it was being deformed by the shoes passing there would be bits off the web bent down and a definate "letter box" gap equivalent to the amount it dips

 

[Elecman]

The picture does not do justice ...100% holes due to corrosion, anyone live near the station who can verify? Its Littlehampton bound platform, just before the passenger bridge

If you are concerned tweet Network Rail directly

 

[yorksrob]

I read in Rail recently that during the recent works on the Brighton main line, some conductor rail dating back to the original electrification in the 1930's was replaced.

Hard wearing kit !

 

[HaggisBotherer]

That's salt-laden sea air for you...

 

[big all]

I read in Rail recently that during the recent works on the Brighton main line, some conductor rail dating back to the original electrification in the 1930's was replaced.

Hard wearing kit !

thats the point there is 90-95% redundancy as long as the top and bottom surfaces are within an inch off flat and level and perhaps at least half the weight is there it will be fine

its made heavy and simple so the weight holds it in place with a pot every meter or so and crude shims to adjust so will stay in adjustment throught its life with little or no maintainance .

 

[yorksrob]

thats the point there is 90-95% redundancy as long as the top and bottom surfaces are within an inch off flat and level and perhaps at least half the weight is there it will be fine

its made heavy and simple so the weight holds it in place with a pot every meter or so and crude shims to adjust so will stay in adjustment throught its life with little or no maintainance .

Indeed. It must take quite a battering over the decades.

 

[mcmad]

The picture does not do justice ...100% holes due to corrosion, anyone live near the station who can verify? Its Littlehampton bound platform, just before the passenger bridge

As others have said I can't see any holes visible in your picture, just areas of surface flaking/historic paint. I looked back at the old thread you mentioned and its a similar picture with no holes visible.

 

[aleggatta]

I have visited the station, there are definite holes in the webbing, and anyone who doubts that should visit the station to make a visual assessment themselves instead of having a tit for tat war with words on a photo that will not get any better no matter how much you keep looking at it.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

I have visited the station, there are definite holes in the webbing, and anyone who doubts that should visit the station to make a visual assessment themselves instead of having a tit for tat war with words on a photo that will not get any better no matter how much you keep looking at it.

Then as Elecman has suggested, contact Network Rail with your concerns

 

[Why]

I have visited the station, there are definite holes in the webbing, and anyone who doubts that should visit the station to make a visual assessment themselves instead of having a tit for tat war with words on a photo that will not get any better no matter how much you keep looking at it.

Thank you eleggatta, glad someone could confirm my observations.
I may not have railway knowledge or technical in any way but i know a hole (and multiplies ones at that) when i see it...... have checked on the nearest Specsavers store for clarification of my eyesight.

Afraid only an I phone photo so not the greatest clarity, think it was the same phone i took the picture on a couple of years ago.

 

[pdeaves]

Thank you eleggatta, glad someone could confirm my observations.
I may not have railway knowledge or technical in any way but i know a hole (and multiplies ones at that) when i see it...... have checked on the nearest Specsavers store for clarification of my eyesight.

Afraid only an I phone photo so not the greatest clarity, think it was the same phone i took the picture on a couple of years ago.

This forum is populated by various railway experts (genuine experts, not 'armchair' experts) who don't see an issue. Personally, from the photo posted, I cannot see any holes either (the light coloured bits would show ballast, sleepers or other rail through them if they were holes, not flat white).

As others have said, let Network Rail know. They will send someone out to check. When I have reported what I thought was an issue (unrelated to third rail!) I received confirmation back within an hour that someone had checked (in my case, it was OK after all).

 

[Bald Rick]

I read in Rail recently that during the recent works on the Brighton main line, some conductor rail dating back to the original electrification in the 1930's was replaced.

Hard wearing kit !

There’s plenty of original con rail out there all over the DC network.

A few years back (ok, about a decade) I pulled out running rail from Cromer that dated from 1899.

 

[Why]

As others have said, let Network Rail know. They will send someone out to check. When I have reported what I thought was an issue (unrelated to third rail!) I received confirmation back within an hour that someone had checked (in my case, it was OK after all).[/QUOTE]

...they can do their own work, can't miss it, simply asked a question on the forum.

Have now gone online and booked an appointment at Specsavers and a second opinion just in case at Vision Direct, not driving, staying at home until glasses are ready. I also have own a labrador and my parents sponsor a guide dog.

When next around there must take my decent camera .......

 

[Skie]

I can see the holes in the picture. First picture is at an angle where you could only ever see a running rail behind it. But the second picture, to the left, you can clearly make out some ballast. Dont think you need specsavers!

 

[aleggatta]

the thing is also, I don't know of any con rail that has ever been painted, it's not load bearing, has been down for years and would take so much prep to paint it would be easier to just let it rot away and replace when required, not to say that some odd bits may have been painted in the past for whatever reason, but painting con rail doesn't seem to be a routine process for the 3rd rail network, so puzzled as to why people would assume that ahead of corrosion

 

[big all]

the thing is also, I don't know of any con rail that has ever been painted, it's not load bearing, has been down for years and would take so much prep to paint it would be easier to just let it rot away and replace when required, not to say that some odd bits may have been painted in the past for whatever reason, but painting con rail doesn't seem to be a routine process for the 3rd rail network, so puzzled as to why people would assume that ahead of corrosion

to be fair its not people think its been painted
its more "thats a heavy steel rail it cannot possibly be that rusted " so there brain adapts the picture to what they can accept rather than believe what they are being told

painting a juice rail is something i have never seen done apart from the electrocution aspect what use would it serve on open track ???

 

[deltic08]

maybe you did, but not on that bit of track
as suggested above, thats a coating flaking off, maybe galvanic zinc

No, you can see ballast looking through the holes in the web for heavens sake.

 

[nuts & bolts]

This forum is populated by various railway experts (genuine experts, not 'armchair' experts) who don't see an issue. Personally, from the photo posted, I cannot see any holes either (the light coloured bits would show ballast, sleepers or other rail through them if they were holes, not flat white).

As others have said, let Network Rail know. They will send someone out to check. When I have reported what I thought was an issue (unrelated to third rail!) I received confirmation back within an hour that someone had checked (in my case, it was OK after all).

Network Rail Permanent Way teams walk the track on a weekly basis, presumably it's structurally within tolerance measures.

 

[trainmania100]

It wouldn't suprise me if they were holes.
Same thing happened at Newhaven town a few months ago there were quite a few holes in the third rail like the first posters pictures. The third rail at Newhaven town has since been replaced

 

[furnessvale]

Thank you eleggatta, glad someone could confirm my observations.
I may not have railway knowledge or technical in any way but i know a hole (and multiplies ones at that) when i see it...... have checked on the nearest Specsavers store for clarification of my eyesight.

Afraid only an I phone photo so not the greatest clarity, think it was the same phone i took the picture on a couple of years ago.

For what it is worth, my first career was as a perway engineer for BR. I too have seen holes in the web of conductor rails in use.

Given the light loadings of collector shoes on the rail, it is no big deal and will be dealt with in due course. The main purpose of the rail is as a conductor of electricity not a load bearer.

 

[M7R]

I reported the same sort of thing a while ago at New Milton to NR. Next time I visited the station about 9 months later the holed bit had been removed, the ends either side bent down and the gap bridges with a cable on the ballast. This basically made a 10ft gap for the trains pick up

 

[HSTEd]

On a related note, did composite aluminium-steel conductor rails ever enter widespread use?
I recall they were being seriously proposed and trialled at one point, but then it all went quiet.

 

[big all]

On a related note, did composite aluminium-steel conductor rails ever enter widespread use?
I recall they were being seriously proposed and trialled at one point, but then it all went quiet.

haven't got a clue as to the answer but i believe you may get accelerated corrosion or indeed other interaction problems like expansion and contraction but purely a guess