41001, the HST group and the future

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alexl92

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It's fantastic to see 41001 now running with the three matching MK3s. Does anyone know if the operators are planning to expand their collection in the future?

And do they have a long-term plan to secure a production HST Power Car once they're retired for the other end, or has that much not been established yet?

I was trying to think the other day what they could do in that respect - the prototype and the production versions have never worn the same liveries so even if they bought a 43, they'd either have to have half the rake in one scheme and half the rake in the reverse.

Thoughts? Purely hypothetical rambles welcome! :)
 
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sprinterguy

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The aims of the 125 Group are fully stated on their website, and they are accepting donations towards the future cost of preserving an HST set:
http://www.125group.org.uk/about-us/
When 125 Group started out preservation seemed very far away, but as the HST fleet gets ever closer to the end of its working life our attentions have been turned to the future and our role in preserving for future generations an example of these magnificent trains which the revolutionised the long-distance rail network in the 1970s. We will do everything we can to meet our commitment to preserve an HST in as near to original configuration as possible. Our dream is to save a pair of power cars with Valenta engines and a selection of trailer cars. As the only group with an interest in HSTs we are working to build up sufficient funds in order to purchase and maintain in working order an example of the train which formed the backbone of InterCity services during its distinguished career
The prototype power cars actually worked with production HST mark 3 vehicles for ride testing purposes for a short time on the Western region prior to the availability of production power cars, so having 41001 on one end of a production set returned to original condition wouldn't be that incongruous (obviously train supply would have to be provided by the production power car on the other end, though).

Of course, they could always paint up 41001 like this and really upset the purists:;):lol:
http://www.fictitiousliveries.co.uk/photo.php?41003bg.jpg

Or go the other way with a production power car:
http://www.fictitiousliveries.co.uk/photo.php?43206hstp.jpg
 
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RichmondCommu

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I think we have to assume that a preserved HST set would be maintained at one of the current HST bases. The future of Laira remains far from certain but I wonder whether Bounds Green might be a good bet. There are of course another three options but BN would also be useful for the GWML.
 

randyrippley

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The prototype power cars actually worked with production HST mark 3 vehicles for ride testing purposes for a short time


did they? I thought that set was the pre-production test builds / prototypes? They eventually got refitted , but they were different from production vehicles
 

sprinterguy

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scotsman

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I think we have to assume that a preserved HST set would be maintained at one of the current HST bases. The future of Laira remains far from certain but I wonder whether Bounds Green might be a good bet. There are of course another three options but BN would also be useful for the GWML.

Craigentinny seems a good shout.
 

Tempest3K

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Hi alexl92,

As sprinterguy has kindly mentioned already, our aim is to preserve at least one powercar as a minimum. However, we are hoping (if we can raise enough funds and the opportunity presents itself) to save a complete HST set.

With regard to plans, the best way to stay up to date with these is becoming a member - that way you'll get a magazine with updates a few times a year http://www.125group.org.uk/group-membership/ although we do add some updates to the website after members have been updated.

If you make the trip to GCR(N) when we're running, or one of the other railways we are visiting this year, it'd be great to see you and have a chat about the HST & it's future.
 

alexl92

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Thanks everyone :)

Tempest 3K, I'll trry and get down there some time, thank you:)
 

JohnR

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Out of interest, what was the situation at GCN with regards to running round? i saw some great video of the prototype car leading the mark 3 set, but not what was on the other end?
 

sprinterguy

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Out of interest, what was the situation at GCN with regards to running round? i saw some great video of the prototype car leading the mark 3 set, but not what was on the other end?
I've seen various images where it has worked with the resident class 56 on the other end on the GCR(N).
 

pdeaves

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Of course, they could always paint up 41001 like this and really upset the purists:;):lol:
http://www.fictitiousliveries.co.uk/photo.php?41003bg.jpg

Or go the other way with a production power car:
http://www.fictitiousliveries.co.uk/photo.php?43206hstp.jpg

Totally aware that your suggestion wasn't overly serious, but why not run a mixed livery rake? Pretty much every time there's a corporate livery change, mixed sets appear so the concept is quite authentic, even if not with the actual vehicles/colours chosen.
 

zn1

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i prefer her in production livery paint..the production fleet would have been a nightmare to keep clean in white/blue....
 

A0wen

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How different (externally) was the production power car from the prototype?

I know 41002 went for scrap - but I thought the cabs were large fibreglass mouldings - designed for easy replacement in the event of accident.

Would it be possible to re-make a prototype style cab and graft it onto a production power car? And how different would it look?
 

CosherB

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How different (externally) was the production power car from the prototype?

I know 41002 went for scrap - but I thought the cabs were large fibreglass mouldings - designed for easy replacement in the event of accident.

Would it be possible to re-make a prototype style cab and graft it onto a production power car? And how different would it look?

You'll have the purists up in arms! Plus the electrical engineers of having one power car with 1000V ETS and the other with 415V. And the accountants for what it would all cost .........
 

A0wen

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You'll have the purists up in arms! Plus the electrical engineers of having one power car with 1000V ETS and the other with 415V. And the accountants for what it would all cost .........

Setting aside the issue of upsetting the rivet counters.....

If the cab is just a large GRP moulding - that's not going to be that expensive. The voltage thing will be an issue if they pair it with a production power car in any case. But surely it would be better than having a nondescript diesel loco on the other end?
 

sprinterguy

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Will this train be doing any railtours on the main lines preferably around London as that is where I live:)
The 125 Group stated in 2013 that they have no intentions of 41001 going back on the main line, due to the cost of fitting the TPWS, OTMR and fire suppression equipment that would be needed for main line running.
 
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I think we have to assume that a preserved HST set would be maintained at one of the current HST bases. The future of Laira remains far from certain but I wonder whether Bounds Green might be a good bet. There are of course another three options but BN would also be useful for the GWML.

What about Neville Hill
 

IanXC

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Going to be converted to look after the 800/801s I think.

80xs will have a depot near Doncaster.

Indeed IEP for VTEC and HT will use a depot under construction at Ten Pound Walk in Doncaster.

Currently there aren't any plans for EMT HST replacement so there's no immediate change. My impression has been that Neville Hill is likely to be occupied with the growing Northern fleet. The biggest factor in which being whether the new build fleets have a new depot.
 

43096

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Setting aside the issue of upsetting the rivet counters.....

If the cab is just a large GRP moulding - that's not going to be that expensive. The voltage thing will be an issue if they pair it with a production power car in any case. But surely it would be better than having a nondescript diesel loco on the other end?
Why would you want to? 41002 is gone - it's one of those things that happens.

"Not going to be that expensive"? Perhaps you'd enlighten us as to how much it will cost. Don't forget to include other items to re-create 41002: cab desk needs significant change as the cab layout is very different, bodyside grilles to cut in, rear cab to include, etc etc.

Wish I had a £1 for every time some clueless muppet comes up with this "idea"...
 

Nym

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You'll have the purists up in arms! Plus the electrical engineers of having one power car with 1000V ETS and the other with 415V. And the accountants for what it would all cost .........

It wouldn't bother me that much, you need to split the train in two anyway with two 415V supplies at each end. Since it's probably going to be a short formation without masses and masses of auxiliaries. You could at a push even make up universal Mk.III coaches that can use either. (Or just use one power car's ETS).
 

randyrippley

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I thought the prototypes when new and considered as locomotives were fitted with dual voltage feeds anyway - supposedly all they did when then they were converted to fixed formation is cut the 1000v cables but left the generator taps in place. So there should be some 1000v wiring to tie into somewhere
(Obviously they removed the B-end driving controls and rationalised the couplers as well, but thats a different set of issues)

Actually that raises a question - are the B-end controls going to be reinstated? It wont look original if they're not.
 
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