43002 to NRM collection repaint?

[theblackwatch]

Where would the NRM get a Valenta for 43002 from anyway?

Have they still got the sectioned one ex 41001?

Isn't there some group that's got a load of Valenta PUs?

 

[sprinterguy]

when a Vehicle is taken in to the national collection, it should be left as it is, no rebuilding back to "original" etc. 43002 really should when she is due to be retired, give her a proper repaint, clean up her cab, the engine room so its least clean and thats it. ready to be handed over for a well earned retirement and as ambassador and to tell the her sisters who served faithfully.

There is no need to reinstate the Valenta on 43002, or the guards van...these are all there on 41001.. the production vehicle clearly shows progress through her life in traffic..

Where would the NRM get a Valenta for 43002 from anyway?

The designation of "class 43 power cars and a selection of mark 3 carriages", or similar wording, to the national collection would be satisfied by the preservation of a set by the 125 Group, who I believe intend to return a set to as near as possible original condition, and have stockpiled a number of Valenta engines removed from power cars during the MTU refurbishment programme.

 

[43096]

Have they still got the sectioned one ex 41001?

Isn't there some group that's got a load of Valenta PUs?

The sectioned one out of 41001 has gone to the Anson Engine Museum in Cheshire, I believe, although I can't find any mention on their website.
http://www.enginemuseum.org/

 

[43096]

The designation of "class 43 power cars and a selection of mark 3 carriages", or similar wording, to the national collection would be satisfied by the preservation of a set by the 125 Group, who I believe intend to return a set to as near as possible original condition, and have stockpiled a number of Valenta engines removed from power cars during the MTU refurbishment programme.

That is true, although the NRM still wouldn't have an engine if they wanted to re-engine 43002.

 

[sprinterguy]

That is true, although the NRM still wouldn't have an engine if they wanted to re-engine 43002.

True, but there's no guarantee of 43002 going to the NRM anyway.

 

[43096]

True, but there's no guarantee of 43002 going to the NRM anyway.

True, although it has been designated by the Railway Heritage Designation Advisory Board, which is part of the Science Museum group, like the Railway Museum is.
https://group.sciencemuseum.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/RHC-designated-items-2018.pdf
(Item 948)
Shame they can't get the vehicle owner right (and it is very, very easy to check) - Porterbrook will have a job handing it over as it is Angel owned power car!

 

[sprinterguy]

True, although it has been designated by the Railway Heritage Designation Advisory Board, which is part of the Science Museum group, like the Railway Museum is.
https://group.sciencemuseum.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/RHC-designated-items-2018.pdf
(Item 948)
Shame they can't get the vehicle owner right (and it is very, very easy to check) - Porterbrook will have a job handing it over as it is Angel owned power car!

Thanks for that link, I hadn't realised that 43002 is designated specifically, but it could still be disposed of to the 125 Group if they wanted it (Although it's staying with GWR for the foreseeable future anyway), which would satisfy the requirement. Though admittedly I can imagine that the NRM might want the first production HST power car for the Great Hall: Though if it was only a static exhibit then what engine it happens to be fitted with would be of little consequence.

It is surprising that they managed to make a mistake with the owner!

 

[Cowley]

A couple of probably silly questions from me then...
Is 43002 going to be used on the GWR short sets? (I could probably find out by looking through the various threads but it might be quicker asking you guys).
If so then is it likely to be repainted/vinyled soon anyway?

 

[43096]

A couple of probably silly questions from me then...
Is 43002 going to be used on the GWR short sets? (I could probably find out by looking through the various threads but it might be quicker asking you guys).
If so then is it likely to be repainted/vinyled soon anyway?

No. 43002 is not on the GWR retained list, nor is it on the ScotRail list. So as it stands, it has no long-term future.

 

[Cowley]

No. 43002 is not on the GWR retained list, nor is it on the ScotRail list. So as it stands, it has no long-term future.

Thanks for that 43096.

 

[sprinterguy]

No. 43002 is not on the GWR retained list, nor is it on the ScotRail list. So as it stands, it has no long-term future.

I thought 43002 was on the GWR retained list?

 

[43096]

I thought 43002 was on the GWR retained list?

No. The retained list is 43004/005/016/040-042/092-094/097/098/122/153-155/158/170/186-189/192/194/198.

 

[sprinterguy]

No. The retained list is 43004/005/016/040-042/092-094/097/098/122/153-155/158/170/186-189/192/194/198.

Ah, many thanks for that. I seem to have erroneously noted down 43002 instead of 43004 after I first saw the list. So 43002 will be up for grabs quite shortly then!

 

[Skymonster]

I hadn't realised that 43002 is designated specifically, but it could still be disposed of to the 125 Group if they wanted it

As far as I am aware 41001 is loaned (long term) by the NRM to the 125group anyway, so no reason why 43002 should not follow the same course. 125group have a long term aim of restoring a full set with Valentas (they have several in store) and I think 43002 with an original engine would work very well in that context.

 

[43096]

As far as I am aware 41001 is loaned (long term) by the NRM to the 125group anyway, so no reason why 43002 should not follow the same course. 125group have a long term aim of restoring a full set with Valentas (they have several in store) and I think 43002 with an original engine would work very well in that context.

I don't understand why 125 Group would want to look after 43002 for someone else - potentially using one of their own engines on something they don't own - when there will be other power cars being disposed off that they could acquire themselves.

41001 was very different: the NRM provided the engine for it, and back then there were no production cars to be had, so the loan and subsequent restoration suited both parties.

 

[nat67]

Where would the NRM get a Valenta for 43002 from anyway?

The 125 Group maybe, but that's pointless as the NRM would just put it in the corner and forget about it like most stuff there ie. 87001. They would rather have an ambulance coach on view instead or a Footbridge.

 

[Mag_seven]

The 125 Group maybe, but that's pointless as the NRM would just put it in the corner and forget about it like most stuff there ie. 87002.

87002 is in the NRM! - thats news to me!

 

[nat67]

87002 is in the NRM! - thats news to me!

Sorry 87001 .

 

[43096]

The 125 Group maybe, but that's pointless as the NRM would just put it in the corner and forget about it like most stuff there ie. 87001. They would rather have an ambulance coach on view instead or a Footbridge.

You really need to read my post above yours. Why would the 125 Group use one of its engines on someone else's power car? Logic does not compute.

 

[nat67]

You really need to read my post above yours. Why would the 125 Group use one of its engines on someone else's power car? Logic does not compute.

As I say why would they bother to do that your point as well as mine. It could even just have no engine in side MTU or not. better off keeping a Valenta for 43053 or something. Does this make things a little clearer.

 

[43096]

As I say why would they bother to do that your point as well as mine. It could even just have no engine in side MTU or not. better off keeping a Valenta for 43053 or something. Does this make things a little clearer.

Yes, it does. Ta.

 

[Herothecollie]

I’m pretty sure Laira has a few Valenta engines floating about (I have heard there is one always there) maybe a test engine? or where ever they have been stored under safe keeping since removing- they would soon be bought back to life in powercar a such as 43300 no questioning that nice 44000 was donated to 125group btw

 

[43096]

I’m pretty sure Laira has a few Valenta engines floating about (I have heard there is one always there) maybe a test engine? or where ever they have been stored under safe keeping since removing- they would soon be bought back to life in powercar a such as 43300 no questioning that nice 44000 was donated to 125group btw

The vast majority of Valentas were scrapped during re-power; a handful were sold on for spares/marine use and a handful were bought by 125 Group. Essentially, if you want a Valenta back in a production power car, 125 Group is the only way it will happen.

 

[Cowley]

The vast majority of Valentas were scrapped during re-power; a handful were sold on for spares/marine use and a handful were bought by 125 Group. Essentially, if you want a Valenta back in a production power car, 125 Group is the only way it will happen.

43096 - Were those power units worth more at the time for the various different metals * in scrap value than resale as whole units?
I suppose they must’ve had a huge amount of hours on them when taken out of the power cars, and quite old technology too by then?

* I say different metals. What would have been on them? Alloy manifolds, copper pipe work etc? I’ve no idea what’s made out of what on something like that.

 

[43096]

43096 - Were those power units worth more at the time for the various different metals * in scrap value than resale as whole units?
I suppose they must’ve had a huge amount of hours on them when taken out of the power cars, and quite old technology too by then?

* I say different metals. What would have been on them? Alloy manifolds, copper pipe work etc? I’ve no idea what’s made out of what on something like that.

TBH I don’t recall the scrap values vs resale value. The market for secondhand Valentas would be pretty small, though, so resale opportunities would be limited.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

Valentas weren't just used in HSTs. 8 of them were also used as auxiliary power generators on board Invincible, Ark Royal and Illustrious and on some submarines. Hence why Devonport also serviced the engines for BR. As Illustrious has only recently been decommissioned there may well still be valentas available there.

 

[DarloRich]

some submarines. Hence why Devonport also serviced the engines for BR

set for silent running!

 

[gimmea50anyday]

Probably not judging by the "valenta sunset, the mother of all departures" video on YouTube!!!

 

[DarloRich]

Then maybe not judging by the "mother of all departures" video on YouTube!!!

might confuse a Russian sonar operator into think the world had ended!

 

[2392]

when a Vehicle is taken in to the national collection, it should be left as it is, no rebuilding back to "original" etc. 43002 really should when she is due to be retired, give her a proper repaint, clean up her cab, the engine room so its least clean and thats it. ready to be handed over for a well earned retirement and as ambassador and to tell the her sisters who served faithfully.

There is no need to reinstate the Valenta on 43002, or the guards van...these are all there on 41001.. the production vehicle clearly shows progress through her life in traffic..

43002 could and should be mated to 5 MK3 coaches (2 std,2 first and RMB) and her Mother 41001 to recreate a base HST from prototype to squadron.
but please dont mess with her...Modifications are done for a purpose, stripping back a vehicle to as built doesnt and has never made sense to me..unless there are plenty of spare vehicle and coach bodies,(and the cash) to rip to pieces to acheive that look..

just a thought

You beat me to the post there zn1. As I was thinking along similar lines, considering that the other prototype power car went first the the R & D Department at Derby [home to a variety of obsolete locomotives and stock], before being scrapped. Whilst it is/would be great to preserve a complete 125 train, there are logistical problems of where to keep such an ensemble, just look at the APT-E at Crewe. Glad that I am that one survived, as a cobble together of 2-3 of them, as they'd started scrapping them and there wasn't a single complete set left.