458's on the way out

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heart-of-wessex

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I heard 458s will be used somewhere else, I forget where

are 458s still GEX replacements in-case a 460 breaks down? not that ive seen a 458 GEX replacement, has there ever been a 458 on GEX yet, I cant see them being suitable, still if the 458s go far or scrapped then the 73s can be 460 replacements :D
 

Jim

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I can't see people paying £28 to go on a 458 with 2+3 seating, I would rather go on a 377!!
 

heart-of-wessex

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LOL exactly what I mean Jim, id rather it was a 73 set like, but putting a 458 out instead?? thats like putting a Bog Unit on the HEX cos a 332 has failed! (it being london probably ends up being Silverlinks bog unit)
 

Techniquest

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LOL! Oh dear, that would be bad.

Why are SWT getting rid of the 458s? They've not long had the reports of MASSIVE MPC rates increases, from 57xx to 20,000-ish.

I'll personally not be happy with 450s covering 458 diagrams. If they do go, where will they go? 458s are perfect for the route they run. If SWT aren't happy with them, who else will take them?

Leave them where they are I say.
 
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Tom

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Put more trains on Bournemouth - Waterloo trains (I'm sure the Junipers can make an extra 30 min service (so we get 4tph northbound, and 2tph sthbound)
 

TheSlash

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2 units have been transfered to GEX to run diagrammed services for GEX, releasing 460's for maintenance. The 458's will only run as 4 car sets aswell, on off peak workings apparently
The rest will go into warm storage or the English channel, which ever is easier 8)
 

yorkie

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How long before we get someone say "Stop new train bashing, the 458s will be good eventually, give them another 10 years. I don't mind being on a broken down 458, better than being on an on-time slammer any day" ;)

The 458 should never have been invented, and hopefully I'll never travel on one again!
 

bunnahabhain

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What are you reasons for those comments Yorkie? Each time I've been on a 458 (numbers twice) they have been comfy, quiet and they have worked perfectly well.
 

TheSlash

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AlexS said:
Their reliability has quadrupled in a year, making them one of the most reliable units on the Southern railway. Not bad at all.
But while they were rising to that level, SWT had already ordered enough Desiros to not only get rid of slammers, but 458's aswell
The original design of the 458 and the fact that they will be non standard to the fleet means its easier to get rid of them now there is something to replace them
 
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yorkie said:
How long before we get someone say "Stop new train bashing, the 458s will be good eventually, give them another 10 years. I don't mind being on a broken down 458, better than being on an on-time slammer any day" ;)

The 458 should never have been invented, and hopefully I'll never travel on one again!
How long will it be before people stop coming up with stupid comments like these?
 

Guinness

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Jamie C. Steel said:
What are you reasons for those comments Yorkie? Each time I've been on a 458 (numbers twice) they have been comfy, quiet and they have worked perfectly well.
I've been on only one but I find them good units. Quiet and great air conditioning on a hot day. :)

I'll could say a few things like that about the Pendolino. :)
 

Julian G

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yorkie said:
How long before we get someone say "Stop new train bashing, the 458s will be good eventually, give them another 10 years. I don't mind being on a broken down 458, better than being on an on-time slammer any day" ;)

The 458 should never have been invented, and hopefully I'll never travel on one again!
shame , i will make sure you travel on one again and see if it better than an old "rustbucket" and a new German Import product
wessexs and junipers will stay and defeat everything
 

yorkie

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If my comments are so "stupid", why are SWT getting rid of them?

The fact is that many 458s have failed on many occasions. Just because one or two people here have had an on-time journey doesn't make them generally reliable!

I have not seen the very latest figures, but the figures I last saw were abysmal and that is what I base my comments on.
 

AlexS

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The current figures for the 458s are up at around 20,000 mpc. Apparently they have had some mods or something. The Wessex units, 1288gaje, will probably not last too long now, they are becoming very, very tired.
 

yorkie

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1288gaje said:
wessexs and junipers will stay and defeat everything
I certainly hope the Wessex units stay, but Junipers aren't in the same league. They're not suitable for longer-distance journeys.
 
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Tom

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I've heard that they may be nicking more traction equipment off other slammers for the Wessex trains (I hope they don't give us the 444s! :()
 

Julian G

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tubechallenger said:
I've heard that they may be nicking more traction equipment off other slammers for the Wessex trains (I hope they don't give us the 444s! :()
444 are just copycats of 442
and i think that they are 442 replacements
 

Coxster

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1288gaje said:
tubechallenger said:
I've heard that they may be nicking more traction equipment off other slammers for the Wessex trains (I hope they don't give us the 444s! :()
444 are just copycats of 442
and i think that they are 442 replacements
No, they are just new long distance trains :roll: As for you comments Yorkie, I bet if it was a Juniper or have to walk the route you would go via Juniper :roll:
 

Simming

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heart-of-wessex said:
sorry dont agree Julian, IMO 442s look and ride quality and sound are completely different to 444s....
They are similer in idea for the train though, like they are both long distance inter-city services, so to speak, hence the end doors and not the usual commuter 1/4 3/4.
 

yorkie

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Coxster said:
I bet if it was a Juniper or have to walk the route you would go via Juniper :roll:
I don't understand that comment.

It seems a few people are rather upset at the criticism of some of the new trains, so can people tell me how any of the following characteristics do the rail industry any favours:-

- Non-standard designs
- Corridor connections that don't work (in the case of Junipers)
- Poor reliablility (in some cases, Junipers were shocking but it's claimed they have improved a lot recently)
- Couplers that are non-standard. Many different couplers for different units these days make rescuing failed trains very difficult.
- Higher weights causing more track damage/wear and tear (track access charges should reflect this in the near future)
- More fuel/power required, and at a time when fuel costs are escalating rapidly
- Non-standard trains with low residual value may attract high leasing costs

Not all new trains suffer from all the above problems but many of them do.

What is needed is a standard reliable and proven design, with standard couplings, fuel-efficient, etc.

Arguments like "would you rather walk?" aren't helpful. If the rail industry doesn't stop cost escalation and other issues then we could be in big trouble. The Government already wants to massively reduce rail subsidies!

Does anyone read Roger Ford's 'Informed Sources' column in Modern Railways? I think I can spot a few who don't ;)
 

Coxster

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okay, you say about you hope to never travel on one again but I bet you would if it meant walking.
 

Met Driver

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Coxster said:
okay, you say about you hope to never travel on one again but I bet you would if it meant walking.
As said previously, comments like that aren't the most sensible. Indeed, if I needed to travel to Reading from, say, Bracknell (JOP route), I wouldn't opt for a different means of travel, for example walking, purely on the basis that I disliked the traction.
 

Guinness

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yorkie said:
What is needed is a standard reliable and proven design, with standard couplings, fuel-efficient, etc.
Look at the Turbostar. Over 200 built and is still a reliable train with all the things that you have said above Yorkie.

I think "Rubbish" trains are down what different TOCs want and the different styles they prefered. In BR days it was all to do with cost cutting in different areas e.g most slammers had the same couplings so if one failed anything could come and get it. In todays scene you have the Turbostar which is compatiable to work with the Sprinter Series etc. So its not all a total failure...
 
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