4DD coach on the move from NIRT - where is it going?

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JKF

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According to the front page of the Northampton Ironstone Railway Trust website (https://www.nir.org.uk/) the Bullied Double Decker EMU coach that has been languishing there for some years is soon to depart. Does anyone know where this is going?

Another group is already at work restoring the other surviving driving coach at Sellinge, but this one is not going there apparently. There had been attempts by the Sellinge group to contact the owner of ‘the other end’ but without success. Sadly they passed away in December and the departure of this unit will be related to that.

I’m hoping one day both ends of this unique and quirky unit are reunited.
 
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yorksrob

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JKF

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It has now been formally announced that this unit will be heading south to Sellinge, to be reunited with the other surviving driving car, thus creating a ‘2DD’, although I believe there are technical reasons why in their original form you can’t actually connect the two ends together (they have a centre buffer like some other bullied stock?)

This is the announcement on the Sellinge 4DD group’s Facebook page:

It gives me great pleasure to announce the Northampton Ironstone Trust Railway based 4DD is coming to Sellindge.
Following the passing of Nick Robinson, his sons and the NIRT have gifted the 4DD to the Sellindge-based 4DD group.
On behalf of the joint owners and myself of the Sellindge DD group:
I would like to thank Nick Robinson's sons and the NIRT for giving us the opportunity to reunite these two historical pieces of railway history.
More to follow shortly.
Mark Hickmott Hickmott joint owner.
On behalf of the Sellindge based 4DD group.

 

yorksrob

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The 4DD does get a lot of publicity in spite of being a bit of a developmental dead end.

The EPB is as deserving of preservation if not moreso.
 

37114

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It has now been formally announced that this unit will be heading south to Sellinge, to be reunited with the other surviving driving car, thus creating a ‘2DD’, although I believe there are technical reasons why in their original form you can’t actually connect the two ends together (they have a centre buffer like some other bullied stock?)

[/I]

If I recall, at least one of the carriages has been modified in preservation to have different draw gear on the inner end so it could be hauled around from either end, as new they had central buffers.
 

STEVIEBOY1

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That is very interesting to hear, I often wondered if any of those units did get saved, perhaps now one day it will be possible to travel on one.
 

A0wen

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That is very interesting to hear, I often wondered if any of those units did get saved, perhaps now one day it will be possible to travel on one.

I very much doubt the DD unit will ever see use either on the mainline or on a preserved railway. The vehicle that's being removed from the NIRT is in very poor condition having been out in the open for donkeys years. It's going to be a very long term restoration that.
 

Ralph Ayres

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The 4DD does get a lot of publicity in spite of being a bit of a developmental dead end.
That's probably as good a reason as any to preserve one; a useful reminder next time anyone says that double-deck trains are the answer to all the railways' capacity problems.
 

A0wen

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That's probably as good a reason as any to preserve one; a useful reminder next time anyone says that double-deck trains are the answer to all the railways' capacity problems.

A slight over-simplification there - in many countries they have been and have worked, the problem in the UK is the relatively tight loading gauge which is a legacy of being an early builder of railways.
 

Titfield

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A slight over-simplification there - in many countries they have been and have worked, the problem in the UK is the relatively tight loading gauge which is a legacy of being an early builder of railways.

Absolutely - they work very well in the Netherlands.
 

pdeaves

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A slight over-simplification there - in many countries they have been and have worked, the problem in the UK is the relatively tight loading gauge which is a legacy of being an early builder of railways.
Perhaps Ralph Ayres' statement would work better as "That's probably as good a reason as any to preserve one; a useful reminder next time anyone says that double-deck trains are the answer to all Britain's railways' capacity problems".
 

alexl92

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Are these the only two 4DD carriages left? If so it's great that they're being reunited into a pair.
 

Well Hall

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It would be nice if they could be restored One as built in green The Other in suburban blue. as a couple of Trailer class ( so no motors) and a class 73 to power them. In 1973 I used to travel home in them from Waterloo East to Eltham Well Hall
 

alex17595

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Is there any Heritage lines about that would be able to give them a decent run? Either the full length of a substantial distance.
 

A0wen

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There really aren't.

Well actually there are - not including the NIRT one, there are 10 DMBSO / DTSso vehicles in preservation.

Whilst I accept that's a small proportion of the numbers built, EMUs are not particularly useful vehicles in preservation terms being unable to self-propel, so they either end up being loco hauled or 'stuffed and mounted'. The latter takes up space which is at a premium at many preservation sites. So whilst you may not like it, the reality is the EPB will only have a very limited appeal and that limited appeal may not be enough to secure its future given there are 10 other vehicles in preservation which show 'how' these units looked. The 4DD is now unique in the same way the sole surviving 306, 405, 502, 504 are also unique and to lose any of those would leave a genuine gap in preservation terms.
 

Journeyman

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Well actually there are - not including the NIRT one, there are 10 DMBSO / DTSso vehicles in preservation.

Whilst I accept that's a small proportion of the numbers built, EMUs are not particularly useful vehicles in preservation terms being unable to self-propel, so they either end up being loco hauled or 'stuffed and mounted'. The latter takes up space which is at a premium at many preservation sites. So whilst you may not like it, the reality is the EPB will only have a very limited appeal and that limited appeal may not be enough to secure its future given there are 10 other vehicles in preservation which show 'how' these units looked. The 4DD is now unique in the same way the sole surviving 306, 405, 502, 504 are also unique and to lose any of those would leave a genuine gap in preservation terms.
Yup, there's no less than five complete 2-EPB units, representing SR, BR and Tyneside designs, so all major variants have been saved, and that's one of the best survival rates of any EMU class. They're actually extremely well-represented.

On top of that, one of the similar 2-HAPs is undergoing a major restoration at Shildon.
 

Journeyman

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I'd be interested to know where all five are. I'm only aware of three.
On closer inspection, it's three complete units, and four motor vehicles, the latter all listed at Finmere according to Wikipedia, but they'll all have moved by now as the site has been cleared for HS2 work.

Said motor vehicles are all from departmental units, so I'd imagine they were acquired for spares, probably for unit 1753.

So, three complete units saved for sure. Still a far higher survival rate than most other EMU classes, and to be honest there's nothing particularly unusual or praiseworthy about the design.
 

yorksrob

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On closer inspection, it's three complete units, and four motor vehicles, the latter all listed at Finmere according to Wikipedia, but they'll all have moved by now as the site has been cleared for HS2 work.

Said motor vehicles are all from departmental units, so I'd imagine they were acquired for spares, probably for unit 1753.

So, three complete units saved for sure. Still a far higher survival rate than most other EMU classes, and to be honest there's nothing particularly unusual or praiseworthy about the design.

Ah yes, the de-icing units were fairly comprehensively stripped inside, so aren't really complete passenger EPB vehicles.
 

Journeyman

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Ah yes, the de-icing units were fairly comprehensively stripped inside, so aren't really complete passenger EPB vehicles.
No, they're empty apart from a big tank. Perhaps worthy of preservation in their own right, though!
 
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