Mike bello
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I used to see dozen off slammers on the suburban side during the early 2000s can I please have the diagrams
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4veps on suburban services during south west trains era - diagrams
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Peter Mugridge
Veteran Member
A lot of these were random substitutions as an alternative to cancelling something when a 455 failed and so would not have been diagrammed as such, I'm afraid.
That also sometimes used to happen in BR days, and you even occasionally used to get CIGs in place of SUBs, EPBs, 508s or 455s.
It seemed to happen a lot in the VEPs' and CIGs' last year or two of service, though, especially on the Windsor & Eton Riverside trains.
Southern
Member
There was some booked VEP working on Waterloo - Guildford via Epsom services in the early 2000's I believe.
I believe that at one time, the Southern Electric Group produced a booklet of unusual Southern Region workings. I'm not sure how long they carried on putting it in to printed form, though. Their website does have a 'news and features archive' section which may be worth a look.
A number of things on the Windsor side are being conflated here:
455s replaced Slam door trains on the Reading line in the evenings and weekends in the late 1990s because of a the risk of vandalism and anti-social behaviour on the trains, particularly at the western end where evening loadings were minimal. This had nothing to do with slam door trains then running on 'inner' services as the 455s were otherwise spare at these times.
A number of timetable changes were made in 2003, one of these was to remove the Staines to Weybridge shuttle and replace it with through running from the Hounslow line. 8-455 formations could not be used on the this line because of short platforms so, in order to provide peak capacity, it was necessary to use VEPs on stopping services via Hounslow. It wasn't great for timekeeping.
During the introduction of 450s, VEP formations were booked on certain Windsor services. The diagrams on the Windsor line were self-contained whereas there was interworking of Weybridge and Hounslow loop trains.
As others have noted, it has been common from time to time for outer suburban units to substitute for 455s without this being booked.
I don't think there are diagrams still available - there are certainly no relevant ones here by which time there weren't booked slam door workings on the Windsor or Suburban sides.
455s replaced Slam door trains on the Reading line in the evenings and weekends in the late 1990s because of a the risk of vandalism and anti-social behaviour on the trains, particularly at the western end where evening loadings were minimal. This had nothing to do with slam door trains then running on 'inner' services as the 455s were otherwise spare at these times.
A number of timetable changes were made in 2003, one of these was to remove the Staines to Weybridge shuttle and replace it with through running from the Hounslow line. 8-455 formations could not be used on the this line because of short platforms so, in order to provide peak capacity, it was necessary to use VEPs on stopping services via Hounslow. It wasn't great for timekeeping.
During the introduction of 450s, VEP formations were booked on certain Windsor services. The diagrams on the Windsor line were self-contained whereas there was interworking of Weybridge and Hounslow loop trains.
As others have noted, it has been common from time to time for outer suburban units to substitute for 455s without this being booked.
I don't think there are diagrams still available - there are certainly no relevant ones here by which time there weren't booked slam door workings on the Windsor or Suburban sides.
1H05 South West Trains Diagrams - First Half 2005
web.archive.org
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Snow1964
Established Member
Not in SWR era, but during the 1970s (and early 1980s) VEPs worked the peak hour trains on the Guildford via Cobham services due to high number of First class season ticket holders
Certainly did. I witnessed a ‘tired and emotional’ passenger attempting to alight from one such service whilst the train was being held at Guidford’s home signal on the Cobham line. Fortunately for him his fellow passengers caught him before he took a step into the great unknown. (IIRC our carriage was on the viaduct over the River Wey.)
Dr_Paul
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There would be occasional 4-VEPs or 4-CIGs on the Kingston loop service, presumably substituting for failed 455s. Younger people who had only been on 455s were baffled by the internal door handles (the sliding ones) in compartments, and by the absence of them in corridors, not knowing that one had to drop the window in the door and use the outside handle. I once travelled in a guard's van on one of these substitutions (it was very crowded), and the guard told me how much the train was delayed because of passengers' unfamiliarity with the stock. I enjoyed the opportunity to travel on something different.
I remember seeing 455s on Reading services and wondering whether they were ad hoc substitutions or whether they were rostered for some reason. I also wondered what passengers doing the whole or nearly the whole route thought of them.
I remember seeing 455s on Reading services and wondering whether they were ad hoc substitutions or whether they were rostered for some reason. I also wondered what passengers doing the whole or nearly the whole route thought of them.
43096
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This Waterloo-Reading line punter was neutral on VEP or 455. The occasional CIG substitute was welcome, but the CEPs were the preferred ones pre 458.Now you know
I'm not sure that is true in generality. I recall someone berating a manager at a 'meet the manager' session about 2+2 seated units appearing on peak Reading services and the resulting need to stand up into London from one of the Western stations (although I agree with you that if you got a seat CIGs or CEPs were welcome).
I can't imagine too many Reading line passengers specifically waited for the 1622 / 1926 from Waterloo which was booked for a 2+2 seated unit (with a VEP) in the early 2000s.
Before Winnersh and Earley had platform extensions for 458 operation, 455 substitutions had to be 4-car or omit these stations.
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I always forget you had CEP's over your side ! Having grown up on the South Eastern with them, I always found them (post refurb) a bit modernist for my taste.
I only lived in Reading for about a year and never came across one on the route.
43096
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Obviously the VEPs were by far the majority, but CIG and CEP appearances were roughly the same. In many ways it was surprising how many CEPs made it over to the South Western in SWT times; guess that was down to Connex South eastern releasing them so they were available.
Yes, we (the SE) seemed to swap a lot for CIG's in the 90's - which suited me fine.
Not sure the timing is quite right for it to be considered a 'swap'
NSE moved CIGs from South Central (ie 1806-1813,1839-1843,1870-3/1876-9) to South Eastern around July 1991 to release 4-CAP units to suburban use. (1701/42/48 came later from the same source in 1998 having been off lease). I think VEPs 3801-3808 were post-privatisation moves, hence the renumbering, and also came from South Central.
The move of 30 or so CEPs to the South Western division (I think 1507/12/17/19/27/31/33/34/35/37/38/39/44/47/48/50/53/55/63/65/66/68/71/72/73/78/81/612/17/97/98/99) was I think a South West Trains post-privatisation change that followed them becoming spare on the South Eastern side between 1996 and 1999.
I think that CEPs and the non-greyhound CIGs (1880-1891) on South West Trains were basically run indiscriminately with those and the greyhound CIGs (1301-1322, 1392-1399) separately diagrammed. All of them made it to Reading in the late 1990s / early 2000s however. BEPs made it onto the Waterloo to Reading line occasionally (with the buffet closed).
1392-1399 gave the best of both CIGs and CEPs of course!
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I remember how exotic it seemed when I first saw a CIG turn up in the Ashford area.
My recollection from living in Surbiton at the time is that this was true of the off-peak services as well -- I don't remember a SUB or EPB on a Cobham line train from when I was old enough to notice until the 455s took over.
It may have depended on whether they needed the toilet or not.
Sad Sprinter
Established Member
This thread makes me think of another thread topic I was going to start-4VEPs on the Central section. I am sure I remember in the early 2000s seeing slam door stock on SouthCentral stopping services. I may have caught one once-I can't remember, but I certainly remember as a child looking out for any slam doors on locals because it did happen, maybe about once every two years.
There was an online railway photo albu, I used to visit way back in 2006 called something like "londonse", that had lots of interesting pictures of trains from roughly 2000-2005. Anglia 170s on Hull Trains services and such. One of the pictures was a 4CIG stopping at Wandsworth Common on a local service-so it did happen.
There was an online railway photo albu, I used to visit way back in 2006 called something like "londonse", that had lots of interesting pictures of trains from roughly 2000-2005. Anglia 170s on Hull Trains services and such. One of the pictures was a 4CIG stopping at Wandsworth Common on a local service-so it did happen.
Southern
Member
There were quite a few, mostly peak time working between London Bridge/Victoria - Selhurst/East Croydon/West Croydon/Sutton/Epsom/Dorking/Horsham/Guildford, generally booked for VEP/VOP stock but the old CIG cropped up here and there. The only south central metro services that I don't ever remember seeing them on were Beckenham Junction/Epsom Downs/Caterham/Tattenham Corner and Wimbledon.
43096
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The 38xx series (3809-3812 were with SWT) were ex-South Central units renumbered, I think because they were Porterbrook owned and running in VEP fleets with other owners. From memory the VEP fleet was split at privatisation between all 3 ROSCOs: Angel (South Eastern), Eversholt (South Western) and Porterbrook (South Central).
There were definitely booked runs to Dorking. There was a pair of slam doors booked on a suburban diagram in the late 1990s. It stabled in the sidings just outside Waterloo between the peaks. I think the diagram included a run to Guildford via Bookham but I might be making that up. Runs to Chessington and Shepperton tended to be ad hoc.
This list looks good to me with the addition of 1589. Some of them didn't last very long. They were pretty grotty when they first arrived on SWT but they overhauled all the ones that lasted more than a few months.
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Journeyman
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I only once got a CIG on the Kingston loop, it was during heavy snow in 1987, when presumably all diagrams were messed up. I went to Clapham Junction via Richmond. Had to wait hours for a train back again.
ChiefPlanner
Established Member
During the snow of 1987 - and at the drivers request - he had a torrid time from Hampton Court to Surbiton on the up with a single 455 , - we arranged a set swop at Waterloo for his very late next round trip to an 8-VEP. Got a warm thumbs up from him on his return working (at Wimbledon) - not that there was much of a timetable plan that day, we just ran what we could. The VEPS did quite well in the snow and cold.
61653 HTAFC
Veteran Member
Hampton Court was my local station during the 2002/2003 academic year, and I was dating a lass who lived in Morden. My usual route home from hers of an evening was to walk down to Morden, take the Northern up to Stockwell and change for the Victoria to Vauxhall where I'd catch the last down Hampton Court of the night. This service was almost always a VEP but occasionally even saw a CIG/CEP/BEP. On the odd occasion that SWT sent out a 455 it was quite the disappointment!
Dr_Paul
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That's a very long way around. I would have caught a bus to Raynes Park and boarded the Hampton Court train there.
61653 HTAFC
Veteran Member
You're right, but train > bus. I was usually on a 2-6 Travelcard so cost wasn't an issue. I did sometimes go Morden South - Wimbledon - Hampton Court though.
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