5x Class 153 conversion to bike and baggage vans for Scotrail

[GlitterUnicorn]

Hmm, that's an interesting point, and risks the internal arrangement being soon made obsolete by the rapid adoption of ebikes.

EBikes are a problem, some of them are absolutely huge compared to normal bikes and take up maybe twice the space, while their frames are also probably not compatible with conventional train bike racks. But generally they're too expensive to totally replace conventional bikes for now.

I'm more concerned about the strength required to lift bikes into the racks (and possibly adoption of ebikes as @squizzler says). There is this misconception that nobody could possibly want to travel with a bike who isn't particularly strong, but in reality bikes represent an efficient, enjoyable and easy means of travel, even for those who aren't.

Yeah, I agree that sounds like a problem. I imagine though that if there are several free hooks a bike could be lent against the side of the train. Or if there are a dozen other bikes onboard there might be another cyclist around to help you?

 

[Clansman]

All of them; didn’t they all have the original seats still anyway?

They all had original seating.

I dont think that the seating refurbishment includes 478 given it was already PRM'd in 2016 after the flooding incident, and is the only unit to retain the original seating given it was written off and sold on to Brodies. Correct me if I'm wrong though.

 

[LOL The Irony]

All of them; didn’t they all have the original seats still anyway?

So they do.

 

[delt1c]

158’s on the WHL would be a massive improvement. As much as I like the 156’s the Travel duration on WHL is crying out for stock improvement

 

[scotraildriver]

They all had original seating.

I dont think that the seating refurbishment includes 478 given it was already PRM'd in 2016 after the flooding incident, and is the only unit to retain the original seating given it was written off and sold on to Brodies. Correct me if I'm wrong though.

478 was brought up to the same standard with new seats and sockets last year.

 

[Clansman]

478 was brought up to the same standard with new seats and sockets last year.

Hadn't realised, thanks for clarifying.

 

[route101]

Always find the tables on the airline seats come down quite low on the 156s.

 

[mcmad]

not nearly as low as the proper tables on the refurbs unless they've fixed it since the original design

 

[Steven_G]

No news yet on when the first until will be running?

I appreciate there is no immediate demand due to travel restrictions but there was an initial single unit meant to run this summer was there not?

 

[alangla]

ScotRail 156s never had anything else

Not quite. One of them, but I can’t remember which, got a variety of seats in one car during the 1990s as a demonstration of what could be done, similar to the odd end of 314203

 

[Killingworth]

Paniers and electric bikes are a potential difficulty. This is a picture from last summer taken on a crowded 150. Two bikes with large paniers and a third travelling light totally trapping the guard in the rear cab. It took a little effort to get them all in the train and I expect it took a bit more to get them out again!

Probably OK on the left hand side in a 153, but getting all the bikes or skis in and out the door may add a few delays! I'm amazed the idea of payment for all the space taken hasn't been broached.

 

[scotraildriver]

Not quite. One of them, but I can’t remember which, got a variety of seats in one car during the 1990s as a demonstration of what could be done, similar to the odd end of 314203

156450. Got a new toilet too.

 

[Journeyman]

158’s on the WHL would be a massive improvement. As much as I like the 156’s the Travel duration on WHL is crying out for stock improvement

I was perfectly happy with 156s on WHL with the original seats in them, but now they have ironing boards, they're horrible.

 

[Unstoppable]

I actually have the opposite opinion. I find the 156s to be far noisier and the seats on the 158s more comfortable. Also the 156s seem to ride rougher but that might just be me.

I'll give you boiling hot though. The 158s are supposed to have air conditioning, but the refrigerant that the system was designed to use is no longer allowed, so it's rather ineffective.

You may need to read again. Scotraildriver was stating his opinion from the driving environment not the passenger environment like you have stated

 

[scotraildriver]

You may need to read again. Scotraildriver was stating his opinion from the driving environment not the passenger environment like you have stated

I did actually mean from the passenger perspective. This is the 158s 30th year in service and the majority of them have been unbearable in the heat of the last 2 weeks. I can't see a resolution to the air con issues now. The Leibherr mods didn't work, the roaring fans are draining and the braking performance is terrible. Whilst I agree the 156s are not ideal either I maintain they are a better and more reliable proposition than 158s.

 

[Neptune]

I think any train crews who sign both 156’s and 158’s will favour 156’s for the reasons given. Just a shame we’ve lost 156’s at Leeds AGAIN.

 

[Neptune]

With regards to the 153 conversion I do think it is a really good idea for rural bike heavy routes and could be implemented elsewhere.

Last summer at Garsdale (S&C) I had the joy of trying to fit 6 bikes on a single 158. Last train of the day so you can’t leave them in the middle of nowhere. If it had been a 1589xx unit it would have worked as you can use the area where the 2nd toilet doesn’t exist.

Now, if a bike 153 was added but with a few more seats than the Scotrail units and say enough bike space for a dozen bikes (you don’t need ski storage this far south) it would be fine. Small uplift in capacity bonus too as single 158’s have become the norm and no loss in performance as they are timed for 75mph running Leeds - Skipton and it’s 60mph max north of there.

 

[yorkie]

Just a reminder this thread is to discuss '5x Class 153 conversion to bike and baggage vans for Scotrail'.

If anyone wishes to discuss something else, please create a new thread, or use an existing thread, as appropriate.

Thanks

 

[DannyMich2018]

This forum was started 2 and a half years ago, the aim to convert 5 units, rather ironically it only took about 2 years back in the eary 1990s to convert the entire fleet of 35 Class 155s to 70 Single-car Class 153s, just like the saga of the Class 442s south of the border is it worth the bother to spend vast amounts of money on 30 year old plus trains??!!

 

[ashkeba]

This forum was started 2 and a half years ago, the aim to convert 5 units, rather ironically it only took about 2 years back in the eary 1990s to convert the entire fleet of 35 Class 155s to 70 Single-car Class 153s, just like the saga of the Class 442s south of the border is it worth the bother to spend vast amounts of money on 30 year old plus trains??!!

Isn't the length of time because it is not vast amounts of money and being done on the cheap, as usual for UK cycling?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Isn't the length of time because it is not vast amounts of money and being done on the cheap, as usual for UK cycling?

It doesn't look very cheap to me.

 

[ashkeba]

I'm amazed the idea of payment for all the space taken hasn't been broached.
View attachment 80173

If service was as good as pictured designs, I think people would pay for bike tickets, like in neighbouring countries, but if there was payment, there would be a contract for bike transport and people would expect the service or redress. Removal of the BR bike fares was a mixed blessing. People would also expect those giant wheeled cases often found blocking the bike spaces to be charged.

 

[hexagon789]

Isn't the length of time because it is not vast amounts of money and being done on the cheap, as usual for UK cycling?

I thought it was because nothing gets done quickly these days?

 

[ashkeba]

It doesn't look very cheap to me.

We've only seen artist impressions so far and it looked like just some handrails, shelves and ladder hooks but I really meant it is probably cheaper than paying for a guaranteed delivery date.

 

[Bletchleyite]

We've only seen artist impressions so far and it looked like just some handrails, shelves and ladder hooks but I really meant it is probably cheaper than paying for a guaranteed delivery date.

True. Good quality, cheap, fast. Choose any two.

 

[ScotTrains]

It's a shame they haven't utilised the passenger section better.

Part of the franchise commitment was to have scenic trains in a 'sperate premium carriage' with tablecloths and breakfast, lunch and dinner hampers. The franchise commitment also mentions special events such as keynote speakers giving talks, whisky and food tasting events etc. It also states there should be Premium comfort seating that maximises passenger comfort. I can't see how an ironing board could ever fit that bill!

I thought it would have made sense to have this new scenic section with comfy seats in the 153. That way it would be distinguished from the attached 156. It would also give the passengers, keynote speaker, food tasting expert, etc
more privacy without other passengers walking through, assuming the bike end of the 153 is attached to the 156.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's a shame they haven't utilised the passenger section better.

Part of the franchise commitment was to have scenic trains in a 'sperate premium carriage' with tablecloths and breakfast, lunch and dinner hampers. The franchise commitment also mentions special events such as keynote speakers giving talks, whisky and food tasting events etc. It also states there should be Premium comfort seating that maximises passenger comfort. I can't see how an ironing board could ever fit that bill!

The original concept was that ex-Inverness Class 158s would be used on these routes, which do have a relatively premium seat - the Grammer IC3000. I don't know about a "separate premium carriage" though. It does indeed strike me that stuff like this would be a potential earner - basically combining the best of a charter and a public transport train service.

 

[py_megapixel]

I thought it would have made sense to have this new scenic section with comfy seats in the 153. That way it would be distinguished from the attached 156. It would also give the passengers, keynote speaker, food tasting expert, etc
more privacy without other passengers walking through, assuming the bike end of the 153 is attached to the 156.

I can see a few problems:

• I'll confess that I've never actually been on a 153 (on several occasions when I've tried to find one they've all been substituted for 156s!) but I've heard that their ride quality is atrocious, so hardly "premium"
  
  
• I've also heard that their windows are awkwardly high - again, not ideal for a scenic service.
  
  
• Surely the people sitting in the bike carriage are going to be the people who have their bikes in the racks, and it's not certain that they'll want the "premium" service that will presumably come at an extra cost?

 

[py_megapixel]

These units aren't being renumbered at all are they? Either a new class or a new range within 153?

 

[Bletchleyite]

They ride the same as any other Sprinter; they may have the same Leyland body panels as a Pacer but that doesn't make them ride like one, they have bogies.

The windows are a bit high, yes, though this can be mitigated by the choice of a high, upright seat - the ironing board fits this description. What they do have, though, is a "wall of glass" effect due to very narrow pillars which like the Pacer is excellent for a scenic line.

I would agree though that it wouldn't be the place to put the "premium service".