67 via Wrexham from 17th Sept/official

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merlodlliw

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from todays North Wales web notice board.

http://www.nwrail.org.uk/nwnews.htm.

News about the 'WAG Express' is that a notice to Arriva Trains Wales staff informs them that the loco-hauled train will be running via Wrexham from September 2012 and that it will be using Mk3 rolling stock - presumably including Arriva's Driving Van Trailers.


Later, more info, from another source


We can confirm we have have been informed by Arriva Trains that the new September timetable will see the Express service to Cardiff routed via Wrexham General.

It will comprise of a Class 67 locomotive and DVT with Mark 3 coaches and a dining car. It will run along this route taking the path of the current Birmingham, 07.43 off Wrexham service, although expected to run a little earlier but stop at all stations. Passengers for Birmingham will need to change at Shrewsbury to connect to the Holyhead - Birmingham which will run via Crewe. It will return in the evening via Wrexham at 18.19 off Cardiff, in the path of the current second express.

The second express service that currently runs an hour later via Wrexham to Cardiff will no longer run and for us this will be replaced by a Birmingham service.


Bob
 
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anthony263

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It seems they are waiitng for chiltern to get extra stock so that some MK3's can be transfered to ATW

Have they finally seen some sense as scrapped WAG2 hopefully so if anything WAG2 should run in the opposite direction to WAG 1 for example from Cardiff at 06:15
 

Rhydgaled

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What will happen to the current 16:15 Cardiff - Holyhead express? Is only one LHCS return working planned? Since there are 3 DVTs and 3 67s I'd expect two LHCS workings.

Will the current mark3 buffet cars be through-wired to form part of the new service, or are the new mark3 rakes coming with their own buffet cars?

All the pictures I've seen of Gerald since 67s took over have been hauled by 67002, have any other 67s been used on the service yet?
 

anthony263

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It does seem like then the southbound WAG2 and northbound WAG1 are being withdrawn with WAG taking up WAG2's path.

Hopefully then we will see the class 175 used on WAG2 put back on the services it should be working that should hopefully provide ATW with some relief.

Also I was told that there were some MK3 carriages at Cardiff Canton already in additopn to the MK2 rakes there.
 

merlodlliw

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It does seem like then the southbound WAG2 and northbound WAG1 are being withdrawn with WAG taking up WAG2's path.

Hopefully then we will see the class 175 used on WAG2 put back on the services it should be working that should hopefully provide ATW with some relief.

Also I was told that there were some MK3 carriages at Cardiff Canton already in additopn to the MK2 rakes there.

I have the stakeholders who received the letter from ATW, does this imply only one Holyhead to Cardiff Premier train & only one return service.

The 175 is to be taken off Premier OA service, that is confirmed.


Bob
 

merlodlliw

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I have the stakeholders who received the letter from ATW, does this imply only one Holyhead to Cardiff Premier train & only one return service.

The 175 is to be taken off Premier OA service, that is confirmed.


Bob

Read I have asked stakeholders. and the respoince to my question is below (from a local rail officer)

Bob

As my last sentence says

The second express service that currently runs an hour later via Wrexham to Cardiff will no longer run and for us this will be replaced by a Birmingham service.

The Cl 175 express that runs later via Wrexham is not going to continue but the current Premier service currently running via Crewe will be routed via Wrexham with different rolling stock of course.

Unlike the current Premier service it will leave Cardiff later taking the path that the second service ran through Wrexham.

Hope this helps

Regards
name withheld
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
No connection to Cambrian again then?

If I am understanding the contents of the ATW letter correctly, you may well be right,looks like the up will be similar time into Shrewsbury & Cardiff arrive 10a.m.

Holyhead 0520?
Bangor,
Junction,
Colwyn,
Rhyl,
Flint,
Chester swop 67/DVT (say ten minutes)
replace franchise path,Wrexham,Ruabon,Chirk,Gobowen.(BHO service runs)
Shrewsbury.
Newport,
Cardiff.

Down, depart 6.18p.m. cut out Gobowen//Ruabon to make DVT/67 swop time in Chester.

4.15 Local service Mon/Fri Cardiff to Abergavenny reinstated, path should be returned to Franchise train

Bob
 
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Penmorfa

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If I am understanding the contents of the ATW letter correctly, you may well be right,looks like the up will be similar time into Shrewsbury & Cardiff arrive 10a.m.

Holyhead 0520?
Bangor,
Junction,
Colwyn,
Rhyl,
Flint,
Chester swop 67/DVT (say ten minutes)
replace franchise path,Wrexham,Ruabon,Chirk,Gobowen.(BHO service runs)
Shrewsbury.
Newport,
Cardiff.

12 intermediate stops - funny sort of express :roll:

Actually it will be eleven as it does'nt stop at Colwyn Bay in either direction.
 
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SprinterMan

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12 intermediate stops - funny sort of express :roll:

I will be surprised if it does both Flint and Colwyn Bay, each of the current WAG trains only do one or the other. I think Colwyn Bay will probably lose out. I can see them missing chirk also, like WAG2 does now.
 

Penmorfa

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I will be surprised if it does both Flint and Colwyn Bay, each of the current WAG trains only do one or the other. I think Colwyn Bay will probably lose out. I can see them missing chirk also, like WAG2 does now.

WAG2 stops at Chirk. The loco hauled must stop at Chirk as it will run in the path of an existing service. This is a franchise commitment.
 

Michael.Y

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I think he means the driver has to change ends, and control has to be given to the vehicle at the other end etc, rather than running the loco round the train :P

Oh. 10 minutes? Really?

Wouldn't a full crew change would occur at Chester, rather than the same driver changing ends?
 

merlodlliw

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12 intermediate stops - funny sort of express :roll:

Actually it will be eleven as it does'nt stop at Colwyn Bay in either direction.

It may stop at Colwyn, its all guess work,
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Sorry - 67/dvt swap at Chester? Am I missing the point of a bi-directional train?

Driver swoops ends DVT to 67 was my meaning
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I will be surprised if it does both Flint and Colwyn Bay, each of the current WAG trains only do one or the other. I think Colwyn Bay will probably lose out. I can see them missing chirk also, like WAG2 does now.

It will stop at Flint & my guess is Chirk on the down, I can not see it running through two A.Ms patches non stop, Chirk would serve Gobowen.But Gobowen is the busier

Perhaps Colwyn may remain empty.

I have not seen a copy of the letter to stakeholders, perhaps my contact has presumed Express, when its just Premier service.
If a Sept timetable document is released we will know the stops,however ATW did not put out a May timetable consultative document.

I have tried keep the political angle out of my thread. Just mention Flint & Chirk stations areas of representation.
 
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Rhydgaled

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Why couldn't the express be found its own path through Wrexham, do all the other possible paths through Wrexham then conflict with other services between Shrewsbury and Cardiff / Chester and Holyhead?

If it could be found its own path, rather than having to replace franchise workings, I'd have it call at just the following stations (basicly WAG1s current calling pattern, but with Wrexham instead of Crewe), and perhaps Abergavenny.

Holyhead
Bangor
Llandudno Junction
Rhyl
Flint
Chester
Wrexham General
Shrewsbury
Newport S.Wales
Cardiff Central

Is the 16:15 short working CDF to Abergavenny part of any diagram, seems a bit odd to just have one service? If there's a unit available couldn't it do that all day (serving Pontypool and Cwmbran) to allow reduced calling patterns on long-distance trains?
 

anthony263

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Why couldn't the express be found its own path through Wrexham, do all the other possible paths through Wrexham then conflict with other services between Shrewsbury and Cardiff / Chester and Holyhead?

If it could be found its own path, rather than having to replace franchise workings, I'd have it call at just the following stations (basicly WAG1s current calling pattern, but with Wrexham instead of Crewe), and perhaps Abergavenny.

Holyhead
Bangor
Llandudno Junction
Rhyl
Flint
Chester
Wrexham General
Shrewsbury
Newport S.Wales
Cardiff Central

Is the 16:15 short working CDF to Abergavenny part of any diagram, seems a bit odd to just have one service? If there's a unit available couldn't it do that all day (serving Pontypool and Cwmbran) to allow reduced calling patterns on long-distance trains?

I think the 16:15 used to be worked at one time by the unit which worked the 13:27 Fishguard Harbour - Cardiff service before they changed it so that it would run to Cheltenham instead.
 

Arglwydd Golau

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Down, depart 6.18p.m. cut out Gobowen//Ruabon to make DVT/67 swop time in Chester.



Bob[/QUOTE]

If the original purpose of WAG1 was to encourage workers in statutory/private/independent sectors to use the train to get to Cardiff from the north (ie there & back in one day) then I think that 18h18 return departure is too late. In my experience meetings generally ended by 15h00 and conferences by 16h30 ish, and then people return on the first available train. I understand the need to use an existing path but I suspect there would be less people on the down rather than the up.
 

merlodlliw

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Why couldn't the express be found its own path through Wrexham, do all the other possible paths through Wrexham then conflict with other services between Shrewsbury and Cardiff / Chester and Holyhead?

If it could be found its own path, rather than having to replace franchise workings, I'd have it call at just the following stations (basicly WAG1s current calling pattern, but with Wrexham instead of Crewe), and perhaps Abergavenny.

Holyhead
Bangor
Llandudno Junction
Rhyl
Flint
Chester
Wrexham General
Shrewsbury
Newport S.Wales
Cardiff Central

Is the 16:15 short working CDF to Abergavenny part of any diagram, seems a bit odd to just have one service? If there's a unit available couldn't it do that all day (serving Pontypool and Cwmbran) to allow reduced calling patterns on long-distance trains?

The Wrexham paths are taken by various services, some start/stop at Chester as well,until redouble its at capacity now & only allows max three trains an hour between Saltney Junction & Wrexham, the only current WAG Ex of the four services a day without a franchise stop is the 6.18 up service. So the new down will be plagued with having to stop at Ruabon/Chirk/Gobowen.

Bob
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Down, depart 6.18p.m. cut out Gobowen//Ruabon to make DVT/67 swop time in Chester.



Bob

If the original purpose of WAG1 was to encourage workers in statutory/private/independent sectors to use the train to get to Cardiff from the north (ie there & back in one day) then I think that 18h18 return departure is too late. In my experience meetings generally ended by 15h00 and conferences by 16h30 ish, and then people return on the first available train. I understand the need to use an existing path but I suspect there would be less people on the down rather than the up.[/QUOTE]

Agree, many thought 1615 was too early for the down. so more pressure on the 5.20p,m, now
 
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Michael.Y

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5:20pm is usually only a 2-car 175 anyway. F&S all the way to Abergavenny sometimes.

I personally think ARRIVING at 10am is too late too - work starts at 9am usually.
 

Arglwydd Golau

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5:20pm is usually only a 2-car 175 anyway. F&S all the way to Abergavenny sometimes.

I personally think ARRIVING at 10am is too late too - work starts at 9am usually.

You may have a point, but as I have posted before WG meetings involving gogs were often scheduled to start at 10h00 or 10h30 to allow us to get there - and as I used to work on the train, 'work' started before 09h00!
 

Gareth Marston

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You may have a point, but as I have posted before WG meetings involving gogs were often scheduled to start at 10h00 or 10h30 to allow us to get there - and as I used to work on the train, 'work' started before 09h00!

As I've said before the WG has reminded its Cardiff based staff to time meetings involving those from North Wales around the WG 1 arrival and departure.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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Just to get our directions right, it's:

Up from Holyhead to Chester/Crewe/Shrewsbury
Down from Shrewsbury to Hereford/Newport/Cardiff
Change of direction at Salop, from where it is Down in all directions except Wolverhampton.

Reversing at Chester it's Down to Saltney Jn, and resumes as Up leaving the single line at Wrexham.
 

Rhydgaled

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I guess that a fast service would be

  • Holyhead
  • Bangor
  • Llandudno Junction
  • Chester
  • Wrexham
  • Shrewsbury
  • Hereford
  • Abergavenny
  • Cwmbran
  • Newport
  • Cardiff

Concentrate on serving the biggest places with just nine intermediate points?

Try mine above, eight intermediate stops (10 total). The service is meant to link north and south Wales, so it seems sensible to pick up along the north Wales coast, to serve more of north Wales, then run fast to the south. If Shrewsbury wasn't such a large place at the junction of so many lines I'd leave that out too. An alternative would be to provide a stopper ahead of it along the north Wales coast, with a change to the express available just before the express overtakes.
 
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