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700's coupled to freight

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br0llz

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My GatEX service came to a hault just shy of tinsley a few days ago, and I was able to get a look at something rather odd. I saw four or five freight containers coupled to two 8-car class 700's... Is that a common practice? What could they have been doing?
 
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fgwrich

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What you would have seen then is a new 700 on delivery by the sounds of it. Worth checking in the ThamesLink Desiro City thread as that should tell you which one or two have been delivered this morning.
 

Harbornite

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My GatEX service came to a hault just shy of tinsley a few days ago, and I was able to get a look at something rather odd. I saw four or five freight containers coupled to two 8-car class 700's... Is that a common practice? What could they have been doing?

The containes are used as barrier wagons.
 

gage75

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Would they be also brake force, or are the 700's brakes active from loco??
 

yorkie

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My GatEX service came to a hault just shy of tinsley a few days ago, and I was able to get a look at something rather odd. I saw four or five freight containers coupled to two 8-car class 700's... Is that a common practice? What could they have been doing?
Im aware GTR allocate their GX branded units to all sorts of of places, reaching the Sutton Loop, Bedford, Milton Keynes... but GTR don't operate anywhere near Tinsley (just east of Sheffield!), is this a typo for somewhere else , or is there another Tinsley?

And yes, as others have said, these are barrier wagons.
 

tsr

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Im aware GTR allocate their GX branded units to all sorta of places, reaching the Sutton Loop, Bedford, Milton Keynes... but GTR don't operate anywhere near Tinsley (just east of Sheffield!), is this a typo for somewhere else , or is there another Tinsley?

And yes, as others have said, these are barrier wagons.

Tinsley Green Junction is just South of Gatwick Airport.
 

br0llz

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Im aware GTR allocate their GX branded units to all sorta of places, reaching the Sutton Loop, Bedford, Milton Keynes... but GTR don't operate anywhere near Tinsley (just east of Sheffield!), is this a typo for somewhere else , or is there another Tinsley?

And yes, as others have said, these are barrier wagons.

Sorry for being a total newbie, can someone explain the function of a barrier wagon?

Is this something only class 700's can be involved in, or is it a more general process across other classes?

Thanks in advance!
 

Harbornite

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Sorry for being a total newbie, can someone explain the function of a barrier wagon?

Is this something only class 700's can be involved in, or is it a more general process across other classes?

Thanks in advance!

Barrier wagons are used with most other classes of multiple unit, although this is starting to change as the likes of ROG have started fitting additional couplers to their locos.


Anyway, barrier wagons are there to allow multiple units to be loco hauled, but they would otherwise have been incompatible with the locomotive's coupler. They also provide brake force because the locomotive isn't always able to control the unit's brakes.


In summary, barrier wagons provide brake force and coupling compatibility for multiple units being hauled by otherwise incompatible locomotives.
 

br0llz

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Barrier wagons are used with most other classes of multiple unit, although this is starting to change as the likes of ROG have started fitting additional couplers to their locos.


Anyway, barrier wagons are there to allow multiple units to be loco hauled, but they would otherwise have been incompatible with the locomotive's coupler. They also provide brake force because the locomotive isn't always able to control the unit's brakes.


In summary, barrier wagons provide brake force and coupling compatibility for multiple units being hauled by otherwise incompatible locomotives.

Ah ok, so it's like a gender bender, I get it!

So presumably the class 700 I saw had been moved to this location by a locomotive because it was unable to under its own power?
 

Harbornite

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Ah ok, so it's like a gender bender, I get it!

So presumably the class 700 I saw had been moved to this location by a locomotive because it was unable to under its own power?

Yes. This is how they were moved in France.

vl_2506_75.jpg

http://mainlinediesels.net/index.php?nav=1000001&lang=en&id=9181&action=shownews#.V8RDNJgrLIU
 

swt_passenger

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Why do so many people use the term 'barrier' nowadays to describe what used to be known as a translator?

Back in the day, a barrier wagon separated dangerous goods from a locomotive, didn't it?
 

Harbornite

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That's one of the very best pictures I've ever seen on this website!

Well I recommend mainlinediesel.net and Railcolor.net for pictures of modern British and European locomotives. There's some more pics of other 700s being dragged through France on there.
 

richieb1971

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I think of barrier wagons as adapters.

That pic is great. Shows Network rail that you don't need 8 foot high fences everywhere.
 

Harbornite

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I think of barrier wagons as adapters.

That pic is great. Shows Network rail that you don't need 8 foot high fences everywhere.

It's odd. Go to France, Germany or Poland etc and unfenced stretches of railway are common. It would be interesting to see what the stats are for the number of people killed while trespassing on the railways over there. What I do know is that when the UK's first railways were built, the companies were required to fence them for legal reasons as a way of defining the land they owned so they couldn't expand illegally.
 

br0llz

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Harbornite

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I've used LMGTFY before. If I had wanted to know the stats at the time, perhaps I would have googled it then? Just a thought... :roll:
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Why is more than one barrier or translator wagon used often?

It's for brake force because the locomotive can't control the brakes of the multiple unit.
 
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swt_passenger

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Why is more than one barrier or translator wagon used often?

The translator and any necessary brake force wagons generally get used in matched pairs or sets, so that a loco can easily run round if required during the delivery. Then of course when moving the translators on their own they connect to each other with an EMU type coupling,
 

millemille

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Why do so many people use the term 'barrier' nowadays to describe what used to be known as a translator?


Because barrier wagons and translators are two totally different pieces of kit.

Translators "translate" brake demand from the hauling traction into brake effort on the hauled stock and "translate" power output from the hauling traction into power for the hauled stock to allow the brake control circuits, and other safety circuits, on the hauled stock to energise and operate.

Barrier wagons deliver brake effort to allow the hauled stock to be dead in formation.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Why is more than one barrier or translator wagon used often?

In simple terms, with barrier wagons you need to top and tail the hauled stock with enough braked axles to ensure that if there was a break-away between any part of the train formation and the locomotive the parts of the formation would be brought to a halt.

So if the coupling between the leading coach of the multiple unit and the last of the leading barrier wagons failed, the barrier wagons on the back of the formation would bring the uncoupled section to a stop.

When using barrier wagons the air control for the barrier wagon brakes is either done through the hauled stock's air pipework or by running a flexible hose through/down the outside of the hauled stock. So if a break-away occurs the pipework/hose will separate and the air pressure drops which triggers the application of the brakes.
 
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swt_passenger

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Because barrier wagons and translators are two totally different pieces of kit.

That's exactly what I was getting at though. People use the words to mean the same thing, and they are not.

If separate vehicles are required for brake force, are they no longer known as brake force runners?
 

Sunset route

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That's exactly what I was getting at though. People use the words to mean the same thing, and they are not.

If separate vehicles are required for brake force, are they no longer known as brake force runners?

The original paperwork which I had that's been shredded, showed the formation of being, engine, brake force runners, barrier wagon 4x700, barrier wagon, brake force runners, barrier wagon, 4x700, barrier wagon, brake force runners, barrier wagon, 4x700, barrier wagon and finally the last brake force runners (27 vehicles long).

This was for the first few deliveries until the translator wagons were ready.

Now it's engine, brake force runner, translator wagons 12 or 8x 700, translator wagons and finally a brake force wagons.

But I did see at least one arrive as engine, translator wagon, 8x700 and translator wagon, which is how I read and understood the main part of the fleet was to be deceived, but I've seen others arrive since with brake force runners as well.
 

Harbornite

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Oops, sorry. My poor comprehension skills again, I guess. It's just that:
Didn't read to me as someone who had actually has the information. My bad.

Nowhere did I say that I wanted to see the information at the time I posted that. Anyway, your link didn't answer my enquiry so it was useless. Apology accepted though.


Anyway, sometimes it's better to do your own research than rely on others. This covers the stats for the UK and Germany.

http://rruka.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Brendan-Ryan-University-of-Nottingham.pdf
 
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hwl

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The original paperwork which I had that's been shredded, showed the formation of being, engine, brake force runners, barrier wagon 4x700, barrier wagon, brake force runners, barrier wagon, 4x700, barrier wagon, brake force runners, barrier wagon, 4x700, barrier wagon and finally the last brake force runners (27 vehicles long).

This was for the first few deliveries until the translator wagons were ready.

Now it's engine, brake force runner, translator wagons 12 or 8x 700, translator wagons and finally a brake force wagons.

But I did see at least one arrive as engine, translator wagon, 8x700 and translator wagon, which is how I read and understood the main part of the fleet was to be deceived, but I've seen others arrive since with brake force runners as well.

I suspect they don't have enough translator wagons for every delivery given the delays and the increase in pace to try to catch up hence some deliveries with just brake force runners?

May be the translators are being focused on 12 car deliveries with some 8 car using brake force runners as it isn't just pain as 12 car done that way.
 

Sunset route

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I suspect they don't have enough translator wagons for every delivery given the delays and the increase in pace to try to catch up hence some deliveries with just brake force runners?

May be the translators are being focused on 12 car deliveries with some 8 car using brake force runners as it isn't just pain as 12 car done that way.

The problem is that they are so common arriving now that they are nothing special anymore to pay to much attention to them. 6X66 turns up, ask for release from depot, signal it in and get on with the next train. They don't even get that many looking from the roof of the box now. So spotting formations is very much hit and miss now.
 
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