91119: Returns to service and in Swallow livery too!

Discussion in 'Traction & Rolling Stock' started by 43367, 14 Mar 2018.

  1. LOL The Irony

    LOL The Irony Established Member

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    Aren't Class 90's just upgraded 87's. So are there too many differences?
     
  2. Whistler40145

    Whistler40145 Established Member

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    I'm no engineer, just a humble rail enthusiast
     
  3. 43096

    43096 Established Member

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    Fundamental differences in control system (tap changer vs thyristor), different cab layouts etc etc. Plus the 90s have the UIC sockets to work with Mark 4s.
     
  4. hexagon789

    hexagon789 Established Member

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    Power outputs are the same: 5,000hp continuous, 7,860hp one-hour.
    (87101 was 4,850hp continous)

    Top speed is 110 for both.

    87s (except 87101) have tap-changer control, 90s (and 87101) have thyristors.

    87s have the standard fully variable brake handle, 90s have the same six-step controller as in 91s.

    90s also have speed set; E70 brake units enabling the transmitting of brake demands from such units in Mk3 and Mk4 DVTs.

    Obviously they look different, have as mentioned different cab layouts and 87s weight slightly less (83.3 against 84.5 tonnes).

    I believe the also 90s have a more modern rheostatic brake (forget the precise details of what this entails - possibly it doesn't cut out in neutral sections?), as well as an electronic wheelspin protection system rather than an anti-slip brake.

    There are likely some more differences but those are the ones I can think of just now.
     
  5. SteveyBee131

    SteveyBee131 Member

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    I read somewhere that they were originally going to be class 87/2s, but as @hexagon789 says, the differences are so numerous and substantial that they needed to be a completely different class.
    (Edited typing errors. I'll learn to proof-read one day! :oops::D)
     
    Last edited: 6 Nov 2018
  6. hexagon789

    hexagon789 Established Member

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    That is correct as I understand it. The sole 87/1 was effectively the prototype for the 90s with its thyristor control.
     
  7. alexl92

    alexl92 Established Member

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    A repaint, or a vinyl wrap? If it’s not going into LNER livery, what is it going into - plain white/grey, or something special? Surely if it was a promo livery they’d just wrap it?
     
  8. mullac30

    mullac30 Member

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    I think he meant the shared LNER Virgin livery rather than the actual LNER livery.
     
  9. 43096

    43096 Established Member

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    Or an erroneous report.
     
  10. Trainfan344

    Trainfan344 Established Member

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    Reported in the Railway Magazine for November that 91119 will be repainted into Intercity Livery and be the last 91 to be withdrawn baring any major technical problems.
     
  11. xotGD

    xotGD Established Member

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    It would be nice if it got its proper number back too.
     
  12. hexagon789

    hexagon789 Established Member

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    That's great, they really suited IC Swallow.
     
  13. XCTurbostar

    XCTurbostar Member

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    Let’s hope they go the full mile with a swallow on the front and black headlight sourrounds like 91111
     
  14. cjmillsnun

    cjmillsnun Established Member

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    Agreed.
     
  15. tgrb

    tgrb Member

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    Apologies for ones ignorence, but the proper number is??
     
  16. Darandio

    Darandio Established Member

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    Take away 100. 91019.
     
  17. 61653 HTAFC

    61653 HTAFC Established Member

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    91019.

    "Proper" is open to interpretation though. I'll not be surprised if someone suggests that the proper number would be the lot number applied to the locomotive at the factory...
     
  18. 43096

    43096 Established Member

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    Apply works number 5797!
     
  19. dubscottie

    dubscottie Member

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    If it is going swallow it will be interesting to see how they get round the extra vents on the bodyside.
     
  20. Southern Dvr

    Southern Dvr Member

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    One would hope that a mark IV rake and DVT might follow!
     
  21. sprinterguy

    sprinterguy Established Member

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    I'd view it as unlikely (Not least due to the modern contrasting door requirement which would mar the overall effect, though admittedly they've pulled it off very tastefully on the BR blue/grey 313 unit); which is a shame as the strength of the Intercity Swallow livery, especially as applied to the 225s, was it's linear design that made loco, stock and DVT appear a homogenous unit.

    The repainting/vinyling of 91119 is a charitable gesture that I'm appreciative of, but an Intercity liveried class 91 attached to a rake of VTEC "coke can" liveried stock will look somewhat incongruous, given that stylistically modern liveries have evolved a long way from the stripes and angular blocks of late eighties design.
     
  22. SeanG

    SeanG Member

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    GWR's HSTs look a bit odd with modern liveried stock but I don't see anyone complaining
     
  23. 507 001

    507 001 Established Member

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    F1CA90FF-F438-4606-B6FB-F9B279A11DB5.jpeg

    Good lord. :wub::wub::wub:
     
  24. XCTurbostar

    XCTurbostar Member

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    Credit where credits due, I can’t wait for it to be back on the ECML!
     
  25. scotrail170407

    scotrail170407 Member

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    Nostalgia ☺️ Any idea when it’ll be in service?
     
  26. 61653 HTAFC

    61653 HTAFC Established Member

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    Hope those red A-pillars are just unfinished...
     
  27. DEAN MURPHY

    DEAN MURPHY Member

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    Yes, looks great but those A pillars need to go! I’m sure it’s unfinished
     
  28. mullac30

    mullac30 Member

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    Will there be any LNER branding on it?
     
  29. sjpowermac

    sjpowermac Member

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    Thanks for posting, great to see this. A fitting tribute.
     
  30. sprinterguy

    sprinterguy Established Member

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    Nor shall I. It will certainly look the part based on the photo above but all I'm saying is that it'll only be a partial effect. Great to see the livery again though. It was always particularly effective on the 91s.
     

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