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A career as a signaller

Booking Boy

New Member
Joined
12 May 2020
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2
Location
UK
Thank you. Yes, I understand that. I just presumed, perhaps incorrectly, that for instance a G9 Signaller/ on really good money might be less inclined to pick up a RD Sunday and therefore N/A Sundays not included in rostered leave being hard to cover.
Its as I said you can’t pick and chose if a N/A Sunday can’t be covered the persons who’s Sunday it is has to work. The only Sunday you don’t have to work is the middle Sunday of your AL. The G9 Signaller might be not able to cover a Sunday for various reasons , Hidden hours, doesn’t sign the workstation , can’t catch the next booked turn on their roster.
 
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Raikkonen7

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10 Jun 2019
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89
Apologies, I may not have been clear enough. I’m aware you have to do your Sunday if it can’t be covered.
Where I work, it’s usually very easy for a Sunday to be covered. Personally speaking, if I were a G9, the basic salary plus overtime and Sundays would make me less inclined to pick up overtime/ Sundays. I’d value my RDs a lot more due to the increased workload fatigue etc. I was wondering if this was reflected in ROCs etc. My OP was more of an anecdotal question rather than one regarding the official guidelines.
 

Defenestrate

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6 Aug 2019
Messages
130
Apologies, I may not have been clear enough. I’m aware you have to do your Sunday if it can’t be covered.
Where I work, it’s usually very easy for a Sunday to be covered. Personally speaking, if I were a G9, the basic salary plus overtime and Sundays would make me less inclined to pick up overtime/ Sundays. I’d value my RDs a lot more due to the increased workload fatigue etc. I was wondering if this was reflected in ROCs etc. My OP was more of an anecdotal question rather than one regarding the official guidelines.
I think the answer to your question is a definitive "it depends". Each individual will have different priorities. Some people would prefer the Sunday off instead of working it despite the money, whatever the grade they are on. Some on the opposite side would be loathed to give one up even if they're a high grade. Depending on staffing and training levels, numbers on annual leave etc and the hunger for extra Sundays, you might be able to have every one covered... or not!
Think of it this way too - If your thoughts regarding higher grades and a bigger basic salary meaning less inclination to work a Sunday were accurate/widespread then there would be fewer folks willing to cover an extra Sunday, so you'd probably be more likely to have to work it.
 

Raikkonen7

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10 Jun 2019
Messages
89
I think the answer to your question is a definitive "it depends". Each individual will have different priorities. Some people would prefer the Sunday off instead of working it despite the money, whatever the grade they are on. Some on the opposite side would be loathed to give one up even if they're a high grade. Depending on staffing and training levels, numbers on annual leave etc and the hunger for extra Sundays, you might be able to have every one covered... or not!
Think of it this way too - If your thoughts regarding higher grades and a bigger basic salary meaning less inclination to work a Sunday were accurate/widespread then there would be fewer folks willing to cover an extra Sunday, so you'd probably be more likely to have to work it.
Yep, that’s fair enough. Every location will be different for a variety of reasons.
 

ArchangelA

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Joined
4 Feb 2020
Messages
264
Location
West Midlands
Thanks. A complex ROC. Good thing about that is surely the interviewers for the roles at WMSC surely can’t expect newbies off the street to know the answers to those questions either.
In my experience they wont ask you about anything like that and wouldn't expect you to know it anyway. You may be asked about the role you're applying for though and what skills and competence you bring to it ;)
 

Highlandspring

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14 Oct 2017
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2,777
For those who are of a higher grade, if you request to be N/A on your rostered Sundays, are they generally covered?
I’m currently a G3 and thinking about looking at a higher grade in the near future. At my box, the relief and residents 9/10 cover Sundays if you request me to be N/A, but I’m guessing people value their RDs more in busier locations.
On the contrary, the higher grades can actually sometimes be the most cut-throat for Sundays and rest days. There is a lot of averice at the top of the tree and Covid has really brought this to the fore in some people.
 

Trothy

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22 May 2013
Messages
74
Does anybody know how a signallers grade is determined. Common sense would tell me that it's based on the level of responsibility, but would anyone know if there was an official benchmark that a box must pass to determine a specific grade?
It's scored under the Hayes system which is a sort of universal job scoring system. When looking at a regrade quite a lot of stuff is looked at, track miles, route miles, number of signals/points, traffic levels, complexity of layout and number of phonecalls, parties dealt with (station staff/announcer/depots)
 

Trothy

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22 May 2013
Messages
74
For those who are of a higher grade, if you request to be N/A on your rostered Sundays, are they generally covered?
I’m currently a G3 and thinking about looking at a higher grade in the near future. At my box, the relief and residents 9/10 cover Sundays if you request me to be N/A, but I’m guessing people value their RDs more in busier locations.
Yup, this really is a total "it depends" answer. Within our ROC there are some panels that are pretty short of cover and therefore finding cover for a Sunday can be pretty difficult, whereas other panels it's pretty simple. Also worth noting current 12 hour roster patterns, most rosters have a 3 days either side of a Sunday, and staff will not be played off hidden just to cover that Sunday. (Sickness aside!)
 

Slipper

Member
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14 Jan 2020
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86
Location
Newport
Bit of a general question really, but how often on average do ROCs recruit for signallers? Do they wait until they have a number of vacancies or recruit as and when vacancies arise?

Cheers
 

bouff34

Member
Joined
6 Nov 2018
Messages
138
Bit of a general question really, but how often on average do ROCs recruit for signallers? Do they wait until they have a number of vacancies or recruit as and when vacancies arise?

Cheers
The harsh reality going forwards is that there may be very little in the way of external recruitment for some time... I would suggest that most roles will only be open to internal candidates due to the need to re-deploy the almost certain redundancies elsewhere within NWR? Just my opinion but be prepared if you are an external candidate that there could be a distinct downturn in anything making it to an external advert...
 

ArchangelA

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4 Feb 2020
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264
Location
West Midlands
The harsh reality going forwards is that there may be very little in the way of external recruitment for some time... I would suggest that most roles will only be open to internal candidates due to the need to re-deploy the almost certain redundancies elsewhere within NWR? Just my opinion but be prepared if you are an external candidate that there could be a distinct downturn in anything making it to an external advert...
I heard this only last week from a reliable source
 

High Dyke

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1 Jan 2013
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Yellabelly Country
And then you get local management interpreting recruitment policies in their own way. The latest being to refuse to allow successful internal applicants to take up secondments at other signalling locations. In effect they are stifling career development for current signallers. Certainly this has been introduced on the East Midlands route.
 

Highlandspring

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14 Oct 2017
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2,777
And then you get local management interpreting recruitment policies in their own way. The latest being to refuse to allow successful internal applicants to take up secondments at other signalling locations. In effect they are stifling career development for current signallers. Certainly this has been introduced on the East Midlands route.
That’s pretty poor. What is the union saying about it?
 

Airman22

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28 Sep 2020
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10
Location
England
Having read the railway futures bulletin, I am wondering what this forums opinion is.
Do you think our jobs as signallers are secure in this climate?

I know there are no compulsory redundancies until the end of 2021, but it is still concerning.
 

ArchangelA

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4 Feb 2020
Messages
264
Location
West Midlands
Having read the railway futures bulletin, I am wondering what this forums opinion is.
Do you think our jobs as signallers are secure in this climate?

I know there are no compulsory redundancies until the end of 2021, but it is still concerning.
They won't get rid of signallers, that's one job the railway does need. You may find they only start recruiting from within for the time being though
 

Highlandspring

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14 Oct 2017
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2,777
They won't get rid of signallers, that's one job the railway does need.

I wouldn't be surprised to see nightshifts being done away with on lines without overnight traffic, boxes which can be switched out being closed on a semi-permanent basis where not absolutely required for the timetable and whole lines being closed on Sundays where possible. Even a marginal saving like losing a Saturday into Sunday nightshift is something that might be pursued. There's still plenty of bits that could be lost around the edges while retaining jobs, it just depends on how brutal they want to be; for example could it be goodbye flexibility premium? The axe will swing and the signalling grades will not be left untouched.

I think where signallers may benefit from the situation is that finding money for big resignalling schemes is going to become much harder to justify so there may be a stay of execution for some smaller locations. Where there are box closures as a result of resignalling, however, that's where I'd expect to see compulsory redundancies rather than closed lists etc..
 

Trackboy

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31 Oct 2017
Messages
110
Internal query: does anyone know how many hours of travel pay do you get. If you're not released on agreed date to leave from your current workplace to new one.
 

LGiusto

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25 Jun 2021
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8
Location
West Midlands
Good morning, First time posting so any help appreciated! I am trying in vain to find an example of a shift pattern for a grade 6 signaller in the West Midlands region (New street). I have searched this thread till my eyes hurt and can't seem to find a clear, month's overview (for example) of what a signaller shift pattern might look like. If anyone can help share theirs this would be a great help. Or post a link to previous posts if this information is already available!? Many thanks all.
 

Highlandspring

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14 Oct 2017
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2,777
Internal query: does anyone know how many hours of travel pay do you get. If you're not released on agreed date to leave from your current workplace to new one.
You aren’t paid travel as long as there’s no PDTA involved. You will, however, receive the new grade if you still haven’t been released from your old job 12 weeks after [the date the job closed on the vacancy list] / [the date you were appointed to the job] - take your pick of either based on local HR interpretation of the blue book.
 
Last edited:

Defenestrate

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6 Aug 2019
Messages
130
Good morning, First time posting so any help appreciated! I am trying in vain to find an example of a shift pattern for a grade 6 signaller in the West Midlands region (New street). I have searched this thread till my eyes hurt and can't seem to find a clear, month's overview (for example) of what a signaller shift pattern might look like. If anyone can help share theirs this would be a great help. Or post a link to previous posts if this information is already available!? Many thanks all.
Isn't New St a G9 panel?
I'm not in that region, but I believe there were a number of G6 candidates taken on in various general recruitment drives recently - I understood that these people would be trained (signal school) and then apply for vacancies in the West midland area.
If that is you, or sounds familiar to the job you're referring to, then there won't really be a specific roster for you to see until you are in your full time role whatever that might be.
I know people who have been recruited via the above, and they seemed to have trained on a local box after signal school, until they have found a full time job.
 

LGiusto

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Joined
25 Jun 2021
Messages
8
Location
West Midlands
Isn't New St a G9 panel?
I'm not in that region, but I believe there were a number of G6 candidates taken on in various general recruitment drives recently - I understood that these people would be trained (signal school) and then apply for vacancies in the West midland area.
If that is you, or sounds familiar to the job you're referring to, then there won't really be a specific roster for you to see until you are in your full time role whatever that might be.
I know people who have been recruited via the above, and they seemed to have trained on a local box after signal school, until they have found a full time job.
Hi , Thanks for replying! The job was advertised as a 2 year FTC G6, based at the control centre in Birmingham. Training to start in September, then field training, then once passed out, qualified at G6. There is a big recruitment drive as the 60 hour as week policy comes in to play, so I was told. They need more trained Signallers.
 

Defenestrate

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6 Aug 2019
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130
Hi , Thanks for replying! The job was advertised as a 2 year FTC G6, based at the control centre in Birmingham. Training to start in September, then field training, then once passed out, qualified at G6. There is a big recruitment drive as the 60 hour as week policy comes in to play, so I was told. They need more trained Signallers.
Yes that's the one.
So I think you'll be expected to find (or be directed towards) a permanent position after training, in the area.
With regards to rosters, you'll very likely find out more details after you've finished signal school.
 

wingnut1982

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Joined
5 Jun 2021
Messages
33
Location
Birmingham
Does anyone know what the definitive position of NR is regarding relocating to take up a position as a Signaller?

There seems to be conflicting information - for example on here in this thread there’s much talk about this being done to get a foot in the door before getting a job nearer home. But how does this fit with having to live within 60 minutes of the location you’re applying to?
 

ArchangelA

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Joined
4 Feb 2020
Messages
264
Location
West Midlands
Hi , Thanks for replying! The job was advertised as a 2 year FTC G6, based at the control centre in Birmingham. Training to start in September, then field training, then once passed out, qualified at G6. There is a big recruitment drive as the 60 hour as week policy comes in to play, so I was told. They need more trained Signallers.
Have you applied? Did you get an interview?
 
Joined
23 May 2019
Messages
61
Does anyone know what the definitive position of NR is regarding relocating to take up a position as a Signaller?

There seems to be conflicting information - for example on here in this thread there’s much talk about this being done to get a foot in the door before getting a job nearer home. But how does this fit with having to live within 60 minutes of the location you’re applying to?
That rule didn’t apply to our recent recruits, one of whom lives 3 and 1/2 hours away from the location.
 

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