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A career as a signaller

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Suzuki04

Member
Joined
6 Jun 2018
Messages
8
Morning, so I've been lucky enough to be invited for interview next week for a grade 2 role. I'm just concerned that I'm going abroad on holiday from 19/09 - 01/10, if I'm successful what's the likelihood of being asked to go in for medical or anything else that soon? Would it be daft of me to say at the interview I'm going away but happy to rearrange my holidays to make it? Sorry if that seems a silly question. Just so keen to get this job! Going to enjoy reading through this thread again :D
 
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Suzuki04

Member
Joined
6 Jun 2018
Messages
8
Oh one other question. Are the interview questions purely competency based (Tell me about a time when..) or will there be one or two other questions, such as "why do you want this job"? Cheers
 

Saracen_83

Member
Joined
22 Oct 2017
Messages
475
Hi mate,

First of all congrats with getting an interview.

When I had my interview I had 8 competency questions, as well as a safety question, and a 2-3 questions about the role (why I’m suitable, what I think it’s about etc.)

In terms of your holiday, they do ask you if you have any holiday booked already and note this down on the form...

My advice, read this post as there is loads of information in it as well as using the search function and looking at other signaller threads.. all amazingly helpful!

I did, as have many others and It helped me massively and I start in a few weeks

Good luck!!!
 

Cornisher

Member
Joined
30 Aug 2018
Messages
6
Hi! I am currently in the application process for two grade 4 boxes in Cornwall - Liskeard and Par. The job sounds great, but as I have a young family I am a bit worried about how secure the job is, as I wouldn't be able to relocate and I currently have a secure job with longevity. Does anyone know if there are any immediate plans to upgrade and move to a regionalised centre? Also, if I am successful and have the choice of Liskeard or Par, are their any particular benefits from either one? thanks!
 

nom de guerre

Member
Joined
24 Nov 2015
Messages
774
No immediate migration plans - the existing signalling is being upgraded - but the likelihood is that there will be a Cornish resignalling scheme in the medium-to-long-term future. Originally control was supposed to migrate to TVSC (Didcot); latterly the chat has suggested Exeter.
 

Cornisher

Member
Joined
30 Aug 2018
Messages
6
No immediate migration plans - the existing signalling is being upgraded - but the likelihood is that there will be a Cornish resignalling scheme in the medium-to-long-term future. Originally control was supposed to migrate to TVSC (Didcot); latterly the chat has suggested Exeter.
Thanks for your reply, that's what I feared as Exeter is too far away for me to commute
 

Tom Quinne

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8 Jul 2017
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2,225
Any relocation to Exeter is a long way off, family circumstances change so you never know you relocation in time.
 

Papa Gee

New Member
Joined
31 Aug 2018
Messages
2
Hi all, just wondering if different grade signalling jobs have different test benchmarks or whether they are just generic for "any" signaller position.
 

Cornisher

Member
Joined
30 Aug 2018
Messages
6
Any relocation to Exeter is a long way off, family circumstances change so you never know you relocation in time.

That's true - and if it was just me I wouldn't have any doubts at all. Its just without knowing whether it's likely to be a year or a lot longer it's just the practicalities of paying the mortgage and the kids being settled at school etc. Certainly sounds worth the risk though - thanks.
 

Tom Quinne

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8 Jul 2017
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It’s safe to say at least 5-10 years before any move to Exeter is thought about, a few boxes in Cornwall are having additional kit installed to allow a enhanced service with the current locations.
 

cogload

Member
Joined
29 Jan 2012
Messages
114
Hi! I am currently in the application process for two grade 4 boxes in Cornwall - Liskeard and Par. The job sounds great, but as I have a young family I am a bit worried about how secure the job is, as I wouldn't be able to relocate and I currently have a secure job with longevity. Does anyone know if there are any immediate plans to upgrade and move to a regionalised centre? Also, if I am successful and have the choice of Liskeard or Par, are their any particular benefits from either one? thanks!

West Cornwall is moving to 12hr turns from January AIUI. Factor that into your calculations re: Par. Liskeard and Par have differing hiring managers.

Not sure what you mean re Benefits. Par is a nice box to work and has quite a bit of variety with the clay and LE moves plus the panel for Burngullow. There are some evil overlaps though.
 

ExBR YTS

New Member
Joined
1 Sep 2018
Messages
3
Sorry to butt in... But what 60 hour rule?

It is part of a NR fatigue management standard, currently in consultation with the union.

In essence, the standard has three parts that are applicable to the rostered week -

1) no more than 60 hours in *any* 7 day rolling period
2) 14 hours door to door (home, operating location)
3) No more than 13 days worked consecutively

This, of course, will mean a number of established signaller 12 hour rosters are non-compliant if the standard went live - say - tomorrow......
 

Sunset route

Member
Joined
27 Oct 2015
Messages
1,176
It is part of a NR fatigue management standard, currently in consultation with the union.

In essence, the standard has three parts that are applicable to the rostered week -

1) no more than 60 hours in *any* 7 day rolling period
2) 14 hours door to door (home, operating location)
3) No more than 13 days worked consecutively

This, of course, will mean a number of established signaller 12 hour rosters are non-compliant if the standard went live - say - tomorrow......

There are many rosters out there that predate the current NRP that haven’t been forced to comply. So I doubt that any current rosters that fall foul will be required to change. But as soon as staff side propose changes to their rosters then the current NRP or the new NRP when agreed will have to be complied with.
 

ExBR YTS

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1 Sep 2018
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3
There are many rosters out there that predate the current NRP that haven’t been forced to comply. So I doubt that any current rosters that fall foul will be required to change. But as soon as staff side propose changes to their rosters then the current NRP or the new NRP when agreed will have to be complied with.

All rosters should comply with NRP - and this was brought in following the signaller restructuring all those years ago.....

Point 1 on NRP states that rosters must comply with all standards, legislation etc (cannot remember exact wording, but that is the gist) - this standard will be one of those.

All that said, rosters are done under the banner of negotiation ;)
 

Sunset route

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27 Oct 2015
Messages
1,176
All rosters should comply with NRP - and this was brought in following the signaller restructuring all those years ago.....

Point 1 on NRP states that rosters must comply with all standards, legislation etc (cannot remember exact wording, but that is the gist) - this standard will be one of those.

All that said, rosters are done under the banner of negotiation ;)

Most historic rosters that I know are based on rostered agreed after the 1994 dispute which brought about the 1995 Signallers restructuring agreement. When the 2001 restructuring agreement came out it modified some elements of the 1995 agreement it also incorporated the current NRP.

None of the LDC reps , Area/Route council reps or NOC reps that I know in my part of the world have brought a roster to change for one to current standards because the existing one was non compliant with the current NRP, even when modifying a slightly non compliant rosters a little. But all new rosters that I know that been brought in since 2001 have mainly* been totally compliment.

*a few have slipped by, if it’s been advantageous to the staff and the management have signed it off.

As every LDC good all bad and every LOM/OM good or bad agrees or disagrees rosterers locally is reaso why we have such a variation in rosters around the country all allegedly based upon the current NRP. No wonder new recruits are so confused about what roster they could or maybe working.
 

Static65

Member
Joined
2 Aug 2018
Messages
102
I've now read this entire thread in full. Some great information in here, so thanks to all that have contributed.

With regards to fixed term contracts for external applicants, I've seen it noted that you cannot apply to move to another signalling role until the fixed term is up. Does anyone know how this works in practice, as presumably by that point it would be too late to secure another role before you are unemployed.

Is it the case that you are allowed to apply for other roles throughout your contract but are restricted in moving (if successful) until the fixed term expiry date or is there another process in place that I have missed?

Thanks
 

Tom Quinne

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8 Jul 2017
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2,225
That’s a tricky question as under the new apprentice scheme your effectively tied to your location for at least two years.

It was always the case, and I’ve known two propels who have moved onto full time contracts from fixed term rolls well within their initial term.

Generally fixed terms roll and roll as the location you’ve been taken on closure has been pushed back further than the orginal date.

It’s tricky, depends if you can personally take the risk that you could be out on your ear at the end or not ?
 

headshot119

Established Member
Joined
31 Dec 2010
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2,052
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Dubai
You're only tied in for 12 months from your employment date, certainly not two years.

Fixed terms are a strange case, but I know people who have applied within a fixed term and moved, and others that have been moved onto a full time contract.
 

Static65

Member
Joined
2 Aug 2018
Messages
102
Thank you both.

It is a tough one. I am really drawn to one of the recent fix term roles and know that sometimes you just have to take risks for a chance to get what you want. That said, trying to convince your head that leaving behind a perfectly good, well paying perminent job with good pension and benefits for potential unemployment is easier said than done.

I'm sure there are very good reasons why so many of the posts are fixed term as opposed to offering future relocation etc, but from an outsider's perspective, the approach looks to only attract people willing to take big risks and not the safety first, risk averse demographic that the interview process would suggest they are looking for.
 

Tom Quinne

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Personally I think the external fixed term roles are “show pony’s” an effort to show those of us doing RDW to cover the gaps for months on end that there is an effort to fill the jobs.

Like you say, quite rightly it’s a massive risk leaving a full time job or a potentially 12 month temp role.
 

SignallerJohn

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Joined
19 Dec 2017
Messages
160
I don’t imagine network rail investing potentially thousands into training a colleague to then make them unemployed, especially how many roles there are in the internal list.
 

nom de guerre

Member
Joined
24 Nov 2015
Messages
774
With regards to fixed term contracts for external applicants, I've seen it noted that you cannot apply to move to another signalling role until the fixed term is up. Does anyone know how this works in practice, as presumably by that point it would be too late to secure another role before you are unemployed.

Is it the case that you are allowed to apply for other roles throughout your contract but are restricted in moving (if successful) until the fixed term expiry date or is there another process in place that I have missed?

A couple of colleagues started on FTCs. Both were allowed to apply for their next roles well before the end of their fixed terms. I can't see why this wouldn't still be the case, but I'm sure the hiring manager will be able to confirm at the interview.


It is a tough one. I am really drawn to one of the recent fix term roles and know that sometimes you just have to take risks for a chance to get what you want. That said, trying to convince your head that leaving behind a perfectly good, well paying perminent job with good pension and benefits for potential unemployment is easier said than done.

I'm sure there are very good reasons why so many of the posts are fixed term as opposed to offering future relocation etc, but from an outsider's perspective, the approach looks to only attract people willing to take big risks and not the safety first, risk averse demographic that the interview process would suggest they are looking for.


As SignallerJohn mentioned, it costs the company tens of thousands to train a new recruit, so it's not in their interest to simply dispose of you once the fixed term has elapsed. In reality, if you're competent and reliable, you'll either be offered a permanent job in the same box/area or find something via the (much more extensive) internal job list.

Anecdotal I know, but I've never met, or heard of a decent FTC signaller who didn't subsequently find a permanent job. The 'failures' (for the want of a better word) tend to be people who can't/don't want to do the job.
 
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nom de guerre

Member
Joined
24 Nov 2015
Messages
774
That's true - and if it was just me I wouldn't have any doubts at all. Its just without knowing whether it's likely to be a year or a lot longer it's just the practicalities of paying the mortgage and the kids being settled at school etc. Certainly sounds worth the risk though - thanks.

If you're interested, continue the process. The hiring manager will be able to provide the most current resignalling estimates at the interview. If what you hear then isn't to your liking, you can always withdraw.

You may know that Network Rail works to five-year Control Periods. AFAIA there are no plans for the Cornish boxes to migrate to a ROC/sub-ROC during CP6 (2019-2024), hence my reference to "medium-to-long-term". Resignalling is off the agenda for at least five years, and probably longer.

To quote the final paragraph of the Rail Engineer article I mentioned above: "The (current upgrade) scheme is seen as an important ‘stepping stone’, enabling half-hourly services ahead of a larger resignalling scheme that will follow at some future date. The chances are semaphore signals will still be in use for a few more years yet."

The Western Route CP6 Strategic Business Plan Summary notes: "In CP6 we will continue our programme of renewals to maintain the sustainable condition and performance of the railway infrastructure including: • maintaining the safety and performance of the signalling system including significant life extensions to signalling systems in Cornwall... [snip]."
 
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linnet_ranger

Member
Joined
11 Aug 2017
Messages
47
Location
West Sussex
Hi all. Been a while since I've posted. Concentrated on applying and unfortunately no luck thus far...still have a few "app under considerations" in progress down here in Sussex and Hampshire.

I've spotted the Littlehaven G1 Crossing Keeper role and wondered if anyone knows what shift pattern this is operated on? 8's or 12's? The G1 salary is a massive drop for me financially and so I wanted to ask a couple of questions from an advice perspective.

1 - Do you start on a lower salary as a Crossing Keeper for the first few months, akin to the Signaller roles?
2 - Does the opportunity for overtime wait until you've "passed out" and how long would it take to pass out as a Crossing Keeper for the average Joe?
3 - How long would someone reasonably be expected to stay in the Crossing Keeper position before looking to step up into the world of Signalling?

Thanks in advance. :)
 

Sunset route

Member
Joined
27 Oct 2015
Messages
1,176
Hi all. Been a while since I've posted. Concentrated on applying and unfortunately no luck thus far...still have a few "app under considerations" in progress down here in Sussex and Hampshire.

I've spotted the Littlehaven G1 Crossing Keeper role and wondered if anyone knows what shift pattern this is operated on? 8's or 12's? The G1 salary is a massive drop for me financially and so I wanted to ask a couple of questions from an advice perspective.

1 - Do you start on a lower salary as a Crossing Keeper for the first few months, akin to the Signaller roles?
2 - Does the opportunity for overtime wait until you've "passed out" and how long would it take to pass out as a Crossing Keeper for the average Joe?
3 - How long would someone reasonably be expected to stay in the Crossing Keeper position before looking to step up into the world of Signalling?

Thanks in advance. :)

Littlehaven shouldn’t take very long to pass.

Overtime would be once you’ve passed out and only if there are gaps in you own locations rosters that the GPRs are unavailable to cover. If the location is fully staffed overtime will virtually zero.
 

linnet_ranger

Member
Joined
11 Aug 2017
Messages
47
Location
West Sussex
Littlehaven shouldn’t take very long to pass.

Overtime would be once you’ve passed out and only if there are gaps in you own locations rosters that the GPRs are unavailable to cover. If the location is fully staffed overtime will virtually zero.

Thank you Sunset. Helpful as always. :)
 

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