A little bit of advice please

[theblackwatch]

I am not sure if the OP is able to comply with instructions or not. I hope so, but I do have concerns.

Regarding signs that refer to 'crossing the line', that clearly means crossing the [railway] line!

And that can be justfied by the addition to some signs which say this have an additional wording "except by means of the footbridge". You wouldn't have a footbridge to cross some paint!

 

[ANorthernGuard]

common sense dictates that the ramp is not part of the passenger platform and therefore is out of bounds to the member of the public, HOWEVER NR need a kick up the backside about the poor siting of the prohibition signs!

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Byelaw 12.2 covers it:

An authorised person may, in an emergency or in other circumstances in which he believes he should act in the interests of safety, issue instructions to any person on the railway. No person shall, without good cause, disobey such instructions.

You were asked to move by an authorised person for the means of safety, and thus you have a legal responsibility to move.

The driver's managers are the people to decide whether he was correct or not. And I bet you £50 they support him.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

Byelaw 12.2 covers it:

You were asked to move by an authorised person for the means of safety, and thus you have a legal responsibility to move.

The driver's managers are the people to decide whether he was correct or not. And I bet you £50 they support him.

I bet £150 lol

 

[voyagerdude220]

Off topic..

IPT reacted very strongly against me quoting something, which was present on his Facebook profile last night.. His profile which I accessed from link in a very large font in his signature, which had no privacy restrictions on it- hence how I was able to quote it in the first place. (IPT I have my profile heavily restricted for a reason..)

The reason why I'm mentioning this?

IPT has effectively given the said train driver's personal details readily available to his/her line manager, which i'm sure they don't appreciate..

Talk about double standards..

 

[GB]

common sense dictates that the ramp is not part of the passenger platform and therefore is out of bounds to the member of the public, HOWEVER NR need a kick up the backside about the poor siting of the prohibition signs!

I don't suppose anyone has reported it before.

 

[Seacook]

I could not read the wording on the sign from the photograph, My immediate impression is that the line on the platform at the top of the ramp would designate the limit (it would genuinely not occur to me to cross it).

With the wording given in a subsequent post I agree with posters who believe that the sign is misplaced - it introduces an anbiguity that would not exist if the sign were to be removed, or if the wording were something like "Do not cross the track". But even with the apparent clarification I would still not go down onto the ramp
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

What if you couldn't read the sign until you were past the line?

I would probably be in this situation. I would simply assume that the sign said something about not trespassing on the track and I'd stay on the platform.

 

[DarloRich]

Sorry IPT but you are in the wrong here imo. The sign should be next to the white line at the top of the ramp. However it is quite clear what it refers to, therefore you are stood in an area out of bounds to the public.

Lets put it this way - If i stood there for work i would need all my PPE on and a TVP and an escort!

Ralph is also quite right - The byelaw allows you to be "moved on" by a railway staff member. Just comply and take it up with LM management later. It is my collegues who have to scrape you off the track when it goes wrong. It is not a nice job

 

[IanPooleTrains]

IPT has effectively given the said train driver's personal details readily available to his/her line manager, which i'm sure they don't appreciate...

Whereas I appreciate what you are saying and I might not agree with some of the things you have said about me in the past, I have been accused in the past of not giving facts.

I have, IMO, given facts about what happened.

I thank all of you for your contributions so far and I do see where all of you are coming from.

I always thought that that sign there meant that you could go as far as that point and no further but if you guys are telling me other wise, I will defer to the general opinion if that is what I should be doing

 

[voyagerdude220]

I have been accused in the past of not giving facts.

Is that directed to myself, or other members of the forum? I haven't had the intention of doing that myself, if you feel I have.

 

[IanPooleTrains]

Is that directed to myself, or other members of the forum? I haven't had the intention of doing that myself, if you feel I have.

No, no, no, that is given in general because there are other members, who are not here to defend themselves, who have said that of me in the past so I am giving it to you as a general and not a 'it's been you' kind of statement

 

[DaveNewcastle]

. . . . . if you guys are telling me other wise, I will defer to the general opinion if that is what I should be doing

But more importantly, when you are given an instruction by a rail professional, while on Railway property, then THAT is what you should be doing!

 

[DarloRich]

But more importantly, when you are given an instruction by a rail professional, while on Railway property, then THAT is what you should be doing!

Correct

as an aside the amount of time "spotters" trespass is a disgrace. I have seen them in the cess, the 4 foot , the 6 foot and the 10 foot to get the shot. Idiots.

There was one fool who brought the ECML to a stand by standing on the down fast to take a picture of a steamer on the up fast!

 

[pemma]

I think the sign is just badly sited.

If they mean the rail line then surly they would refer to it as track to avoid confusion?

No they wouldn't. Here's an old BR sign to prove it: http://www.1818auctioneers.co.uk/sa...-the-footbridge--in-red-with-white-lettering/

Similar signs to that still exist on the infrastructure today except they've wrongly removed the plural. There's one at Hale station saying "Passengers must not cross the line except by means of the footbridge" despite there being two lines (as well as a level crossing where non-rail passengers cross the line.)

However, just because you're permitted to do something doesn't mean it's a good idea to do it. I don't think they're a rail bye-law prohibiting you from standing on your head while waiting for a train but you shouldn't be doing that at a station.

 

[IanPooleTrains]

I have seen them in the cess, the 4 foot , the 6 foot and the 10 foot to get the shot. Idiots.

You might have to explain those terms to me Darlo as I am unfamiliar with them.

I will agree that there are idiots out there but there are some of us, us used as a general term, that do adhere to the rules.

I have come on here to ask you of your opinions and seeing as how I was in the wrong, I will learn from this and adhere to byelaw 12.2 or whatever it was (can't remember the exact number)

And just to assure one of the postees on this thread, he knows who he is, I know I have been a bit of a **** for the lack of a better word with some posts in the past although some of you might have a different word for me, (please feel free to post them) but this is a serious matter because we are actually talking about safety here.

Like I have already said, I honestly thought that with the must not pass this point sign, that actually gave me free reign to go down the ramp and I had done this before this incident happened with no one saying anything to me. I was actually unaware of that byelaw even existing, I'll hold my hands up to that.

So this isn't one of those occasions where I am going to argue with any of you because this is a serious matter, this is not just railway safety, this is whether or not I was right or wrong and now that I realise I was wrong, I will, like I have said, learn from this and not do it again in the future.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

4 foot - the space between the rails on one track. Six foot the space between two tracks, and 10 foot is the space between two pairs of tracks. They're not actually 4 foot, 6 foot, or 10 foot wide.

 

[IanPooleTrains]

Check, check and triple check ralph

 

[tempests1]

... Now the train stops where it usually stops on the station and the driver pokes his head out of the window and tells me, I'm not going to use the exact verbage because you never know who is reading, to get back up the ramp that I was on. I politely reply that I was well within the confines of where I should have been and even pointed out where the sign was. He continued to tell me to get back up the ramp until it was time to go and I was doing my very best to stay polite with him. Luckily for myself and himself, I stayed polite and filmed the train out.
So, I put this to you guys out ....

I would support the driver, the sign is in the wrong place where it is currently postioned it is 'on or near the line' as in within 3 Metres / 10' foot of the nearest running line. Not a place where a member of the public should be stood. If the driver quite rightly asks you to move why would you not listen? If you like trains & the railway you would respect the wishes of the staff

 

[IanPooleTrains]

If the driver quite rightly asks you to move why would you not listen?

Quite right, I should have listening but I honestly thought that I was in the right, as I have explained previous, as I was in the confines of where the sign told me to go

 

[Dai.]

Sorry to jump in at the last minute but I thought that the ramp is the beginning of where you're not allowed to stand where ever the sign is placed?


Please correct me if I am wrong!

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Dai, I would consider the limit to be whichever is the first of either a "do not pass this point" sign or a white line across the width of the platform. So if the sign is behind the white line, the white line would be the limit. If the sign is in front of the white line, the sign would be the limit.

And I do agree that "line" on the wording of the sign means the railway line, not the painted line across the platform.