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A Manchester devolved transport livery

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LOL The Irony

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A while ago, when they were still adding the finishing touches to the Manchester & Liverpool Mayors, the MEN I belive, ran a story about devolved transport in Manchester. The picture with the article showed an Enviro 400 MMC in the Metrolink livery. Whlie the design is good to keep, yellow is already associated with the trams so I thought up at the time the clolours for the different modes of transport. They were:
  • 70's Orange for buses
  • Dark Blue for trains
  • Red for taxis
  • (of course) Yellow for trams
(feel free to give your input and correct anything)
 
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edwin_m

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In the UK we have far too many hangups about whether it is a bus or a tram or a train. The countries that do public transport best treat it as an integrated network and it's not too important what mode operates each link. They do however often have a distinction between "normal transit" (buses and street running trams serving all stops without significant priority measures) and "rapid transit" (highly segregated and limited stop, whether priority bus, light rail or heavy rail). So I would paint express buses serving non-Metrolink corridors in the Metrolink livery, and other buses in the same livery but with orange instead of yellow to hark back to the last time Manchester had something resembling an integrated transport network. Trains are more difficult because most routes operate outside Greater Manchester and even those that stay within tend to share diagrams with those that go outside, so perhaps a different livery is more appropriate here.
 

Bletchleyite

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The Metrolink brand is very strong. Could a "Metrolink Rail" and "Metrolink Bus" approach work? (I see edwin_m has suggested this already).

Alternatively add "in partnership" logos to the Northern livery - I quite like that approach. Bit like the ATW "Welsh Government" livery.
 

Chester1

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I don't like the idea of returning to 1970s orange and white buses, they would look dated. I would prefer a deep orange for normal buses and purple for guided, priority and express bus services (ie the Leigh Guided Busway colour scheme). Metrolink has developed a brand therefore should keep the livery until the current trams are replaced but I wouldn't call buses Metrolink. Not sure about red for taxis and I have started a thread about how I think Greater Manchester trains should change!
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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Personally, I like the differing colour schemes of bus liveries, that brighten up the once sombre colour scheme. If you ever get chance to enter the shopping mall in Ashton under Lyne from the bus station side, there is a wall mural showing the past liveries of the local transport undertakings.

The only livery that I cannot abide in the TfGM area, as many already know of my feelings on that matter, is the garish orange and blue of the High Peak fleet, that I understand is replicated elsewhere in their groupage.
 

edwin_m

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Going back to those far off days when each town area in what we now call "Greater Manchester" ran their own buses, did any shade of orange appear in any of those main liveries rather than just in applied thin linings?
Just guessing, but I suspect orange would have been chosen deliberately to avoid any accusations of bias.
 

Dentonian

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In the UK we have far too many hangups about whether it is a bus or a tram or a train. The countries that do public transport best treat it as an integrated network and it's not too important what mode operates each link. They do however often have a distinction between "normal transit" (buses and street running trams serving all stops without significant priority measures) and "rapid transit" (highly segregated and limited stop, whether priority bus, light rail or heavy rail). So I would paint express buses serving non-Metrolink corridors in the Metrolink livery, and other buses in the same livery but with orange instead of yellow to hark back to the last time Manchester had something resembling an integrated transport network. Trains are more difficult because most routes operate outside Greater Manchester and even those that stay within tend to share diagrams with those that go outside, so perhaps a different livery is more appropriate here.
I think we are running before we can walk here (a not entirely inappropriate phrase).

Firstly, it has not yet been decided whether Bus Franchising will be adopted.
Secondly, whatever Reforms are adopted, the first priority is to arrest the accelerating decline in bus usage. I understand that detailed analysis by the various parties has revealed that patronage is lower than was initially believed.
Thirdly, the "environment" is not right for Integration, apart from possibly some progress on fares. Punctuality of ALL modes is nowhere near good enough and Reliability of (at least) Metrolink, Northern Rail and one or more bus companies is also poor. There are far too many obstacles in the way for buses to be punctuality, from bus stop blocking, through poor road layout, frequent road closures due to unannounced roadworks, accidents and "police incidents"*, poor information on said closures (If you aren't on Twitter, you don't exist!); and most of all, traffic light co-ordination.
Fourthly, the waiting/connection environment is poor, with long walks between modes (or even bus to bus), and no protection from the elements (both climatological and criminal).

A chain is only as strong as its weakest link!

As regards liveries, I'm not sure what taxis have got to do with anything, but all I know is that IF franchising is adopted, every colour/combo except predominantly red or (light) blue are still options.

*People with more knowledge about such things than me, tell me that nowadays, the Police treat every reported Road accident as a potential crime, and so lane/road closures last far longer than they used to.
 

edwin_m

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Quite possibly so, and there's a good case not to paint your buses in a shiny new livery until the service quality has been improved. I suspect those train operators who spent money painting/vinyling the outside of their trains but didn't do anything with the tatty interiors actually ended up with worse public perception.
 

Dentonian

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Quite possibly so, and there's a good case not to paint your buses in a shiny new livery until the service quality has been improved. I suspect those train operators who spent money painting/vinyling the outside of their trains but didn't do anything with the tatty interiors actually ended up with worse public perception.

Two developments on this in line with Mayor Burnham speech in Leeds on 13th December. If franchising does go ahead then he does want a single livery. However, your point about improving the service quality first might me met anyway because he also confirmed there will be no "big bang" like at De-reg.
The problem with improving service quality and perception, is just that; Image and perception. Firstly, no matter how good or bad something like reliability is concerned, the Media will always say it is bad. Secondly, it will be a generalised statement, wheras we all know - whatever the mode or wherever you are in the country - some services perform much worse than others just a few miles away, and problems outside the peak are largely ignored by media, politicians and Operators alike.
 

edwin_m

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Not going for a big bang sounds sensible, as this means First and Stagecoach, should they not win (or not bid for) the new contracts, can wind down their operations in a more gradual way. I'd guess each stage would have to cover a bundle of routes in the north and another simultaneously in the south, so that neither company can complain about being discriminated against.
 

Shaw S Hunter

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There are so few rail services that run entirely within Greater Manchester that having a dedicated livery would be pointless; inevitably the trains used on any such services would necessarily be part of a larger pool of rolling stock. The one thing that could be worth doing is insisting on decent size destination displays within which some reference to the local brand could be made when operating such services. In practice I think it more likely that a brand for TfN services over a much wider area may evolve.

As for taxis City of Manchester Council already mandate that all Private Hire vehicles licensed by them are "silver" which seems to work just fine. And no reason to change the Hackney Cabs from black as the vast majority of such vehicles are the same type used in London; black cabs are iconic there and as a result are readily recognised when used in the same way elsewhere.
 

Bletchleyite

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In Germany you often see something like “HVV bis Ahrensburg” or somesuch on displays, so that would be no bad idea, making clear where “PTE” ticketing starts and ends.

Logically, for example, the Marple line could be S-whatever to Strines thence regional.
 

Dentonian

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In Germany you often see something like “HVV bis Ahrensburg” or somesuch on displays, so that would be no bad idea, making clear where “PTE” ticketing starts and ends.

Logically, for example, the Marple line could be S-whatever to Strines thence regional.

Probably a bad example both practically and image-wise. I don't know how many "workings" (or whatever the rail equivalent is), but I would think four or five off-peak at most, with maybe the odd double unit included, so say, 6. At he moment those trains are drawn from however many Class 142s and 150s are allocated to the depot that runs them, and if you are lucky you might get a 156 at peak times. Image wise, if the 4 weekly Performance sheets that are put up at Stations showing all lines into Manchester are to be believed, then the Hope Valley Line is probably the worst for reliability and certainly the worst for punctuality. Of the last 26 journeys to work I have attempted on the line, 2 were cancelled and the average late arrival in Piccadilly for the other 24 was a fraction over 6 minutes.
 

Wirewiper

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Just guessing, but I suspect orange would have been chosen deliberately to avoid any accusations of bias.

That was precisely it - none of the constituent bus companies had used orange, so it was deliberately chosen for SELNEC then GMPTE for that reason.
 
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