A 'overground' for Birmingham and the Black Country.

[oweno]

I've got a set of ideas I'd like critiqued, both from a technical perspective and service / transport policy viewpoint.

The basic concept is that connectivity in the area is terrible, New Street being the root of all evil.

Create a suburban passenger and freight line, largely using existing closed alignments, with some extra new line - the key bit being to join it all up into one big line - i.e. like overground. Throw in the line being connected to HS2 via Birmingham International, to give a lot more towns in the region a direct connection to HS2 without going through New Street (but 'getting' to HS2 is not the primary purpose of the line - it's primary purpose is suburban connectivity.)

cheers
Owen

see attached picture - plus 3 attached PDFs with explanation, detailed alignment and rationale.

**edit** when I wrote this I was completely unaware how heavily Stourbridge Junction was used for park & ride - will need to make some changes around this area for version 2

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

very well document, thank you for your time to make the documents and maps

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

Arena would be near Monument Lane station i think.

I like the big loop. This would connect the midlands better and get more people out their cars

 

[oweno]

Arena would be near Monument Lane station i think.

I like the big loop. This would connect the midlands better and get more people out their cars

Thank you, Yes near the former Monument lane - but a bit closer to the Arena. Is a particularly good bit of late 80's planning to build a national arena directly on top of a railway line but not give it a station - instead two great big car parks.....

 

[oweno]

very well document, thank you for your time to make the documents and maps

Thanks - thought it was worth putting some effort into designing it so there is something more concrete to critique the merits (or lack of) - if it's just a pure concept can be too abstract !

 

[6Gman]

How much new build would this involve?

 

[oweno]

How much new build would this involve?

Total loop circumference 120km
completely new line 24km (south and eastern sections)
new line on old alignments 49km (mainly western side)

optional 21km of electrification
optional 15km of further new line on old alignments from walsall to lichfield
optional 23km of very local 'loop' line around Burntwood, just because I didn't want them to feel left out when everyone else was getting connected up.

Did some comparison with other projects and came out to £2 billion - but that seems low compared to other projects (but they are mainly on live lines)....

 

[blue87]

How about 2 stations on the Birmingham - Water Orton line at Bromford and Castle Vale, both have large residential and Industrial estates by them which would benefit from having rail access, the latter being a stonesthrow from junction 5 of the M6 making an ideal park & ride station.

 

[oweno]

How about 2 stations on the Birmingham - Water Orton line at Bromford and Castle Vale, both have large residential and Industrial estates by them which would benefit from having rail access, the latter being a stonesthrow from junction 5 of the M6 making an ideal park & ride station.

I uuummmed and aaaaaahhh about that and I'm not happy with what I've got at the moment - it is a weak point.

a station on the vale would only be a couple of hundred metres from Water Orton, which in turn is only a few hundred metres from Coleshill Parkway (which is burried deep in an industrial estate) - the vale would not get services to / from derby nuneaton, and coleshill parkway looses out on derby trains.
So Water Orton is something like 0.5TPH.
So I think sack off the current Coleshill parkway - improve Water Orton to platforms on all 4 lines - stop every derby and nuneaton train there making it a proper interchange (which can then go to HS2) - and have a local feeder bus service looping around the Vale, Coleshill and Castle Bromwich.

But is is an area of the plan that I'm least happy about how it works at the moment - improvements please !

 

[SoccerHQ]

I can never understand why the Sutton Park corridor is never considered for light rail. There's strong talk now that Aldridge will get a station re-opened but seems it will only be an extension from Walsall and terminate there which defeats the object a bit.

Get it going through Walmley and Bromford and perhaps Tyburn Road and the roads by the Jag might not be completely gridlocked every weekday between 5-6pm.

You also have a nice insurance when the Cross City line is down for anyone in Sutton/Four Oaks area who could just get on at "Sutton North" and be in town in just over 20 minutes.....

Nice map anyway....another way Walsall/Rugeley TVs train could bypass New Street would be going through Stechford and make that a proper interchange station as you suggest for Water Orton which is very underused currently.

 

[oweno]

I can never understand why the Sutton Park corridor is never considered for light rail. There's strong talk now that Aldridge will get a station re-opened but seems it will only be an extension from Walsall and terminate there which defeats the object a bit.

Get it going through Walmley and Bromford and perhaps Tyburn Road and the roads by the Jag might not be completely gridlocked every weekday between 5-6pm.

You also have a nice insurance when the Cross City line is down for anyone in Sutton/Four Oaks area who could just get on at "Sutton North" and be in town in just over 20 minutes.....

Nice map anyway....another way Walsall/Rugeley TVs train could bypass New Street would be going through Stechford and make that a proper interchange station as you suggest for Water Orton which is very underused currently.

Is the reluctance to use the sutton park line for passengers because then it squashes yet another freight route ? - hence the 'big plan' being to design in mixed passenger and freight operation from the outset.

Yes there seem to be a proliferation of 'branch' line type services either now or proposed (Aldridge, Stourport Town, Brierley Hill) - and there is never enough traffic on a branch alone to justify a decent TPH, hence the reason to try and join them all up to keep them all alive and with good TPH.

oooh I'd not thought much about Stechford and how it could be used..... what else could it link up with ?

 

[oweno]

I can never understand why the Sutton Park corridor is never considered for light rail. There's strong talk now that Aldridge will get a station re-opened but seems it will only be an extension from Walsall and terminate there which defeats the object a bit.

Get it going through Walmley and Bromford and perhaps Tyburn Road and the roads by the Jag might not be completely gridlocked every weekday between 5-6pm.

You also have a nice insurance when the Cross City line is down for anyone in Sutton/Four Oaks area who could just get on at "Sutton North" and be in town in just over 20 minutes.....

Nice map anyway....another way Walsall/Rugeley TVs train could bypass New Street would be going through Stechford and make that a proper interchange station as you suggest for Water Orton which is very underused currently.

oh and the current Tyburn Road plan from BCC is a Sprint Bus route - serving Tyburn road, Walmley etc and then to Sutton (which this plan would negate a chunk of by having rail from Walmley to Sutton. God only knows how the proposed bendy buses will wind their way around Sutton town centre. https://www.birminghambeheard.org.uk/economy/sprint/

 

[adrock1976]

Where the "Hospitals" station is between New Street and Smethwick Rolfe Street, am I right in thinking that is referring to the Dudley Road Hospital (present day City Hospital) and the nearby All Saints Hospital (the psychiatric hospital if that one still exists)?

 

[oweno]

Where the "Hospitals" station is between New Street and Smethwick Rolfe Street, am I right in thinking that is referring to the Dudley Road Hospital (present day City Hospital) and the nearby All Saints Hospital (the psychiatric hospital if that one still exists)?

Yes and no - so you're correct in that I've basically just renamed Winston Green station to something that speaks to passengers more, and spot on with the first hospital.

The second one is the new midland metropolitan hospital https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midland_Metropolitan_Hospital on which building has started again.
I am stretching a little bit since that second hospital is 800m from the station

 

[oweno]

Someone else has been thinking along similar lines to me and they have put together a super report !
http://www.railnews.co.uk/content/documents/whitacre_v2.pdf

 

[416GSi]

Great Idea. Just as an aside there was a line between Hampton in Arden and Coleshill (the Stonebridge Railway). One of the first railways ever to be singled (around 1842 if my memory serves me correctly.)

Bottom line is that the trackbed is to some extent intact and could be a useful alignment for that part of the proposal.

 

[oweno]

Great Idea. Just as an aside there was a line between Hampton in Arden and Coleshill (the Stonebridge Railway). One of the first railways ever to be singled (around 1842 if my memory serves me correctly.)

Bottom line is that the trackbed is to some extent intact and could be a useful alignment for that part of the proposal.

yes - and looks like someone has done work on re-opening that too - see the "whitacre" link I posted above. (and they were also thinking about linking services through that corridor to Walsall via Sutton Coldfield too.)

 

[The Planner]

Someone else has been thinking along similar lines to me and they have put together a super report !
http://www.railnews.co.uk/content/documents/whitacre_v2.pdf

It was laughable, and the person who was behind it was anti-HS2 yet wanted it as a HS2 connected idea. Died a quick death.

 

[oweno]

It was laughable, and the person who was behind it was anti-HS2 yet wanted it as a HS2 connected idea. Died a quick death.

Ah! Good to know the politics behind the report!

 

[The Planner]

I've got a set of ideas I'd like critiqued, both from a technical perspective and service / transport policy viewpoint.

The basic concept is that connectivity in the area is terrible, New Street being the root of all evil.

Create a suburban passenger and freight line, largely using existing closed alignments, with some extra new line - the key bit being to join it all up into one big line - i.e. like overground. Throw in the line being connected to HS2 via Birmingham International, to give a lot more towns in the region a direct connection to HS2 without going through New Street (but 'getting' to HS2 is not the primary purpose of the line - it's primary purpose is suburban connectivity.)

You are trying to reopen lines that would be horrendously difficult to do so now, especially Wolves to Ryecroft, the Hampton in Arden line, Halesowen to Old Hill as well as trying to build a new line through some of the richest bits of South East Birmingham from the Lickey through Hollywood and Catherine de Barnes. Yet you have missed off the biggest one that is still a possible goer in Round Oak to Bescot, especially as you have suggested Lichfield to Brownhills.
How are you dealing with this new line at Longbridge, is it grade separated? same goes at Hampton in Arden and south of Solihull, you need to remember that released capacity from Hs2 will get filled again and not by trains in your proposal.
Your inner circle is a bit optimistic too, Arena station doesn't need to be at Monument Lane, the tunnel under the ICC is deliberately wide as the platforms were envisaged there. Your estimate to do the 15km loop with nine stations in 30 minutes is also very coarse! You cannot assume a 30 second dwell at these stations, so that takes 11 minutes (New St needs 3) and leaves you 19 minutes to start and stop for 15km. Your circle line trains will also be clashing with everything off the Cov corridor at Proof House, again anything released down the Coventry corridor will be filled immediately after HS2. The Vauxhall chord was never double.
Aston would be a nightmare with that level of service, one issue and it would collapse. Not sure moving the station away from where the access is currently much better solves anything.
Perry Barr is just being tarted up for the Commonwealth games, nothing more and you cannot get 3 tracks under the A34 without removing the platforms.
You want to expand Soho to Arena to 4 tracks, what are you doing from there to New St as you wont fit all the trains in. Some of the current Midlands Rail hub stuff is also pretty unlikely too.
Visionary, yes, feasible at lower than multiple billions, never.

 

[gg1]

The street I live on would be nimby central if that plan went ahead. At least 20 of us would lose half our back gardens to the green loop

I actually wouldn’t mind at all but suspect I’d be in the minority.

 

[oweno]

You are trying to reopen lines that would be horrendously difficult to do so now, especially Wolves to Ryecroft, the Hampton in Arden line, Halesowen to Old Hill as well as trying to build a new line through some of the richest bits of South East Birmingham from the Lickey through Hollywood and Catherine de Barnes. Yet you have missed off the biggest one that is still a possible goer in Round Oak to Bescot, especially as you have suggested Lichfield to Brownhills.
How are you dealing with this new line at Longbridge, is it grade separated? same goes at Hampton in Arden and south of Solihull, you need to remember that released capacity from Hs2 will get filled again and not by trains in your proposal.
Your inner circle is a bit optimistic too, Arena station doesn't need to be at Monument Lane, the tunnel under the ICC is deliberately wide as the platforms were envisaged there. Your estimate to do the 15km loop with nine stations in 30 minutes is also very coarse! You cannot assume a 30 second dwell at these stations, so that takes 11 minutes (New St needs 3) and leaves you 19 minutes to start and stop for 15km. Your circle line trains will also be clashing with everything off the Cov corridor at Proof House, again anything released down the Coventry corridor will be filled immediately after HS2. The Vauxhall chord was never double.
Aston would be a nightmare with that level of service, one issue and it would collapse. Not sure moving the station away from where the access is currently much better solves anything.
Perry Barr is just being tarted up for the Commonwealth games, nothing more and you cannot get 3 tracks under the A34 without removing the platforms.
You want to expand Soho to Arena to 4 tracks, what are you doing from there to New St as you wont fit all the trains in. Some of the current Midlands Rail hub stuff is also pretty unlikely too.
Visionary, yes, feasible at lower than multiple billions, never.

Thanks for the feedback - never thought it would be easy multiple billions seems like the right ballpark - Midlands Rail Hub budget is currently 1B for all the various bits of it.
Dotting around randomly..
Discounted Round Oak to Bescot from a passenger point of view because the trams are taking it over, which is 99% a done deal. https://metroalliance.co.uk/projects/wednesbury-to-brierley-hill-extension/
(at 450M for 11km !) - they claim to be retaining "passive freight provision", although I'm not quite sure what that really means. I would speculate night time running of freight if the other smaller missing bits of track are filled back in.

Great to know that the tunnel under ICC is generous, that would make it easier to slot platforms in there.

At Perry Barr the little extra length of platform under the bridge (about 10m) - could be added on at the other end, and then platforms on both sides moved back - there is a massive redevelopment of the roads around there that could free up more land on north side of the line for platform / station use - and on the south side similar demolition of all the existing buildings on that corner.

CrossCity line does Blake street - new street 9 calling points 17km in 27-29min, so while I've been bit optimistic on the timing front, am I far out ? would 35 be more like it, or am I missing something that slows it down awfully ?

Aston currently has 8TPH calling at it - so this would increase it to 12 TPH. University is currently 10TPH + some extra through services at peak times.
Some of the current strategy seems to rely on digital signalling giving more capacity - what is the ultimate limit this can achieve ?
- and yes the ever present block of tunnel into New Street - again, does digital signalling give us anything here ?

Which bits of Midland Rail Hub are a stretch ? (tbh I've looked at their track proposal but not what they propose in terms of service frequencies on it)

Yes lots of grade separation of crossings where the ring meets the 'spokes', not considered each and every one in detail.

Longbridge is a sticky one, probably involving moving the station south, definitely some grade separation, possibly leave station where it is and longer tunnel option.

 

[oweno]

The street I live on would be nimby central if that plan went ahead. At least 20 of us would lose half our back gardens to the green loop

I actually wouldn’t mind at all but suspect I’d be in the minority.

which stretch in particular is the problematic bit ?

 

[oweno]

You are trying to reopen lines that would be horrendously difficult to do so now, especially Wolves to Ryecroft, the Hampton in Arden line, Halesowen to Old Hill as well as trying to build a new line through some of the richest bits of South East Birmingham from the Lickey through Hollywood and Catherine de Barnes. Yet you have missed off the biggest one that is still a possible goer in Round Oak to Bescot, especially as you have suggested Lichfield to Brownhills.
How are you dealing with this new line at Longbridge, is it grade separated? same goes at Hampton in Arden and south of Solihull, you need to remember that released capacity from Hs2 will get filled again and not by trains in your proposal.
Your inner circle is a bit optimistic too, Arena station doesn't need to be at Monument Lane, the tunnel under the ICC is deliberately wide as the platforms were envisaged there. Your estimate to do the 15km loop with nine stations in 30 minutes is also very coarse! You cannot assume a 30 second dwell at these stations, so that takes 11 minutes (New St needs 3) and leaves you 19 minutes to start and stop for 15km. Your circle line trains will also be clashing with everything off the Cov corridor at Proof House, again anything released down the Coventry corridor will be filled immediately after HS2. The Vauxhall chord was never double.
Aston would be a nightmare with that level of service, one issue and it would collapse. Not sure moving the station away from where the access is currently much better solves anything.
Perry Barr is just being tarted up for the Commonwealth games, nothing more and you cannot get 3 tracks under the A34 without removing the platforms.
You want to expand Soho to Arena to 4 tracks, what are you doing from there to New St as you wont fit all the trains in. Some of the current Midlands Rail hub stuff is also pretty unlikely too.
Visionary, yes, feasible at lower than multiple billions, never.

Oh and what is the particularly sticky bit of Wolves to Ryecroft ? - I'd envisaged this as freight only, at the Ryecroft end there is a primary school and half a dozen houses to deal with, but didn't seem super sticky unless I'm missed something major ?

 

[gg1]

which stretch in particular is the problematic bit ?

It’s one of the Black Country bits utilising the trackbed of a long closed route, I don’t really want to give any more clues to my address than that. If you follow the old track beds on google earth there are actually quite a few sections of the closed routes which have been built on.

 

[oweno]

It’s one of the Black Country bits utilising the trackbed of a long closed route, I don’t really want to give any more clues to my address than that. If you follow the old track beds on google earth there are actually quite a few sections of the closed routes which have been built on.

Fair enough - free travel for life on train, metro and bus inside the ring as compensation ?

 

[Bald Rick]

It was laughable, and the person who was behind it was anti-HS2 yet wanted it as a HS2 connected idea. Died a quick death.

Hardly a new idea either. It was looked at in the mid 90s as a way of linking the East Midlands to International. Very quickly realised it was a silly idea.

 

[BC Shuttler]

One would never decry anyone for coming up with innovative solutions, but all transport planning now goes through TfWM, which is basically the old Midland Metro, so are very bus/trams centred in their thinking. So one needs align to their thinking if you want anything to change.
Before commenting further I need to find time to read in full, as this amount of work deserves, but what immediately stood out for me was that the route of the old Wombourne line is now severed, as Dudley Council allowed a huge distribution centre to be built across the alignment at Pensnett, using the entire former Dreadnaught brickwork sidings in 2019. Plus a housing estate went up some years ago on the site or Gornal Halt. The alternative of the former South Staffs Line is now becoming tram line 2 between Wednesbury and Brierley Hill, work already having started.

 

[gg1]

Fair enough - free travel for life on train, metro and bus inside the ring as compensation ?

Seriously I do like this proposal, wouldn't be cheap, would require a fair few compulsory purchase orders and would cause short to medium term disruption while being built but would in the long term be a major boost to the area and thoroughly worth the cost and disruption. If we're serious about encouraging people to give up their cars, decent orbital routes within major conurbations to link the spokes of a radial rail (both heavy and light) network are essential.

 

[oweno]

One would never decry anyone for coming up with innovative solutions, but all transport planning now goes through TfWM, which is basically the old Midland Metro, so are very bus/trams centred in their thinking. So one needs align to their thinking if you want anything to change.
Before commenting further I need to find time to read in full, as this amount of work deserves, but what immediately stood out for me was that the route of the old Wombourne line is now severed, as Dudley Council allowed a huge distribution centre to be built across the alignment at Pensnett, using the entire former Dreadnaught brickwork sidings in 2019. Plus a housing estate went up some years ago on the site or Gornal Halt. The alternative of the former South Staffs Line is now becoming tram line 2 between Wednesbury and Brierley Hill, work already having started.

Super look forward to seeing your comments !

Yes Pensnett is a particularly sticky bit. The latest imagery is May 2019.
A that time by moving the alignment about 140m west of the original that would only effect one industrial unit. - although it looks like about 20 or so houses were in the process of being built at that time.

It's why the project would only work both politically and economically at this scale. If trying to create just one part of the ring the level of disruption could not be justified - but the importance to connectivity comes from it's value as a completely connected ring.

Stourbridge is a another sticky spot. It's vital socially to connect Stourbridge town - also that's where the bus station is, so important to go there from a joined up transport viewpoint - and operationally it can't be a turnabout - so my current suggestion there is to tunnel north from Stourbridge town 1km to connect back up to the 'ring'. Budget wise allowed 65M or so for that 1km of tunnel.

The most sticky bit is Longbridge due to a large new retail development. The simplest (from a railway viewpoint) is to remove approx half of the M&S store - put the railway through - then put the M&S store back over the top of it.