A question for those who sell tickets

[EM2]

So many passengers say 'why didn't they tell me when i bought it?', when I tell them that their particular ticket isn't valid on a particular service.
Do you tell customers all the restrictions applicable to their ticket when they buy it?

 

[northernbored]

Not that I sell tickets but I have never heard the staff at Bridlington ticket office explaining restriction on Advance/Off peak tickets yet on the other hand the TPE staff at scarborough explain any restriction no matter how small normally attaching a card to the ticketss as a back-up

 

[mumrar]

Not that I sell tickets but I have never heard the staff at Bridlington ticket office explaining restriction on Advance/Off peak tickets yet on the other hand the TPE staff at scarborough explain any restriction no matter how small normally attaching a card to the ticketss as a back-up

I'm a guard for XC and I always tell people the restrictions and ask questions to attain the cheapest available ticket. I think a lot of people just say it to try it on too, like our new first class. It may not be luxury, but one thing it isn't is discreet, it's written everywhere but still they claim they didn't know. Had this happen and after they shuffled back to cattle class the trolley staff told me she'd warned them about it and they said "we know but we're sitting here anyway". Ignorance is not an option

 

[martyn29]

A simple thing like asking a customer when they are coming back, isnt simple.. You try your best to sell them the corerct ticket, but they dont want to provide you with the information!

 

[mumrar]

A simple thing like asking a customer when they are coming back, isnt simple.. You try your best to sell them the corerct ticket, but they dont want to provide you with the information!

But if they don't provide you with the information you give them an anytime ticket. They'll soon start talking when you quote that price if they're going any distance. The number of booking office tickets I've seen recently issued before 9 as Off-peak despite peak finishing at 9.30

 

[Mojo]

I often get people asking me "when is off-peak?" and then look at me like an idiot when I try and explain to them that off-peak is different depending on the journey they are making and what type of off-peak they have.

It's worse when you get an off-peak ticket that's valid at any time!

 

[Sir_Clagalot]

Do you XC and TPE guys have Super Off Peaks as well as Off Peaks? We do and its a PITA as the Off Peaks are valid on our Peak services (yet our own Off-Peak isnt!!!), where as the Super Off Peaks are only valid on a couple of services...

 

[yorkie]

The number of booking office tickets I've seen recently issued before 9 as Off-peak despite peak finishing at 9.30

Any examples?

 

[devon_metro]

I've been issued an off peak ticket at half 8 before, however it was a rail replacement bus so had no intention of paying Peak fare.

 

[glynn80]

I've been issued an off peak ticket at half 8 before, however it was a rail replacement bus so had no intention of paying Peak fare.

Was this a weekday or weekend as if it was a weekend there would have been no peak restrictions to the ticket anyway.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

.... The number of booking office tickets I've seen recently issued before 9 as Off-peak despite peak finishing at 9.30

The problem with restrictions is that they are so very different for the same journey. A case in point is Manchester to Liverpool. Try explaining that an Off-Peak return is valid on the 0837, but an Off-Peak Day return is only valid on the 0937!

Or even, why the Off-Peak 'Any Permitted' Manchester-Huddersfield fare (£12.10) is valid on the 0740 Manchester Victoria-Huddersfield service, but not the 0808 Manchester Piccadilly (Manchester Airport)-Huddersfield (Scarborough) service.

I explain restrictions where they are in place, but they often fall on deaf ears, or are not understood. I sometimes feel tempted to stop when I hear passengers say "yeah, yeah, okay" while I'm explaining.

 

[mumrar]

Any examples?

Walsall-Leicester ODR issued at 8.48 on a Monday. LM Revenue assist from Bromsgrove issued Bromsgrove-BurtonOT ODR issued at 8.37 to name a few

 

[devon_metro]

Was this a weekday or weekend as if it was a weekend there would have been no peak restrictions to the ticket anyway.

Was a weekday. The 0844 bus replaced the 0914 off peak train. No way I was being penalised for an inferior form of transport.

 

[mumrar]

Was a weekday. The 0844 bus replaced the 0914 off peak train. No way I was being penalised for an inferior form of transport.

But your ticket with the TOC represents a contract for a journey, not a method of transport. Should we price Pendolino tickets higher than Desiros and West Coast Voyagers. It's an argument I've been challenged with before and it does my head in. Intentional fare evasion is fraud no matter how you dress it up.

 

[A60K]

But your ticket with the TOC represents a contract for a journey, not a method of transport. Should we price Pendolino tickets higher than Desiros and West Coast Voyagers. It's an argument I've been challenged with before and it does my head in. Intentional fare evasion is fraud no matter how you dress it up.

If a passenger, as in this case, has to leave 30 minutes earlier than timetabled because a bus service is replacing a scheduled off peak train, then I really don't see how you consider that to be 'fraud'. Please explain!

 

[yorkie]

To suggest that's fraud is a ludicrous suggestion. The contract was offered at that price, the passenger accepted, end of story!

 

[janb]

price if they're going any distance. The number of booking office tickets I've seen recently issued before 9 as Off-peak despite peak finishing at 9.30

Perhaps down south. There is no consistent rule nationwide. Where I work off peak day tickets on our most commonly requested destinations are valid from 8.30.

Of course we've had the situation where we've correctly sold anytime returns for a certain journey, but a guard on the train has sold off-peak for the same journey, because he either hasn't bothered to check the restriction or doesn't know what time his train arrives. Of course customer comes and complains at us for doing our job properly.

As to the original question, yes we always go through restrictions.

 

[devon_metro]

But your ticket with the TOC represents a contract for a journey, not a method of transport. Should we price Pendolino tickets higher than Desiros and West Coast Voyagers. It's an argument I've been challenged with before and it does my head in. Intentional fare evasion is fraud no matter how you dress it up.

I think the people that abuse FOSS rover tickets are more of a problem. Had the off peak fare not have been accepted, I would have been driven to Newton Abbot, so it made no difference to me.

 

[TEW]

It is unfair to charge you more when to arrive at the same time you have to depart before Off Peak Restrictions are lifted when usually you could get an Off Peak Fare.

 

[mumrar]

To suggest that's fraud is a ludicrous suggestion. The contract was offered at that price, the passenger accepted, end of story!

I think I've been misunderstood, and I can see how. I didn't mean that example was fraud, I was adding that everyone with all the excuses they come out with to intentionally evade fares, rather than the example stated. Sorry for the confusion, I didn't read it back before clicking

 

[tony_mac]

on the same note, I was sold a route 'London Midland only' ticket (to Bletchley) on Friday - without asking for, or even being informed about it. Even when I subsequently asked the same person for the time of the next Virgin train to Milton Keynes Central I still wasn't told. When I realised and went back to change my ticket I got told that I 'should have organised my journey better' as Virgin trains don't stop at Bletchley!

 

[mathmo]

on the same note, I was sold a route 'London Midland only' ticket (to Bletchley) on Friday - without asking for, or even being informed about it. Even when I subsequently asked the same person for the time of the next Virgin train to Milton Keynes Central I still wasn't told. When I realised and went back to change my ticket I got told that I 'should have organised my journey better' as Virgin trains don't stop at Bletchley!

You should have been able to excess it to a route Any Permitted for simply the difference in price. Where were you travelling from?

 

[tony_mac]

She did refund the tickets then sell me new ones, so no harm done - but I only noticed because my friend asked how much he owed me for the ticket!

I wouldn't have enjoyed being gripped on the Virgin service with an invalid ticket, I imagine that they may have charged me more than just the excess.

 

[yorkie]

You can't excess a TOC-specific ticket.

Where were you travelling from?

I don't see how they can say you should have "should have organised my journey better", they should ask you what you want to ensure the correct ticket is sold, ATOC guidelines say they should inform you of any restrictions. Of course, the TOCs get round this by denying any responsibility by saying it is your responsibility and resort to trying to blame customers. It doesn't happen in any other industry, it's peculiar to the railways. Odd that.

 

[mathmo]

You can't excess a TOC-specific ticket.

Thanks for correcting me - I didn't realise that. I just assumed it was the same as a route excess, although I can see why that might not be the case (i.e. where the fare revenue goes).

 

[tony_mac]

This was from Marston Green. To be honest, my journey was really badly organised, but I don't really think that was a valid reason for being sold the wrong ticket!

I bought the tickets as soon as I arrived, before checking to see if we had missed the direct service to Bletchley (we had). Then I went back to ask her about the next train from Birmingham Internation to Milton Keynes Central - I can't understand why she gave me the train times without mentioning that the tickets she had just sold me weren't valid on that service.

 

[First class]

What part of the FRPP prevents excessing a TOC Specific ticket?

I've actually been permitted to, after purchasing a LM Only ticket Stafford-Euston. I asked the VT TM if he could excess me up to the ANY PERMITTED fare which he did.

I paid around £25 excess, (for a return ticket).

Original ticket: £15.50 LDN MIDLAND ONLY SOR PRV
New ticket: £41.00 ANY PERMITTED SOR PRV

 

[Mojo]

What part of the FRPP prevents excessing a TOC Specific ticket?

Posted by hairyhandedfool last year with a quote from the Retail Manual.

Whether this is still the case, or whether such a publication still exists would be interesting to know - I wonder if those with access could inform us.

 

[yorkie]

I'll correct myself:

TOC specific tickets are not meant to be excessed to inter-available tickets.
It can technically be done however!

 

[glynn80]

What part of the FRPP prevents excessing a TOC Specific ticket?

Sorry stethomson90, but there is actually a whole page dedicated to the topic! It's under the Excess Fare Procedures tab, third page.

Customers wishing to use Train Company-specific tickets on another Train Company's services

National Rail Condition Of Carriage, Condition 10, refers.
The validity of some tickets is restricted to services of a particular Train Company. Where the 'route' shown on the ticket specifies a particular Train Company name(s) for the main part of the journey it cannot be used on any other Train Company's service for that part of the journey unless authorised for this purpose (e.g. train service disruption).

No excess fare is charged and customers should purchase a new ticket to travel on the train.

The Train Company issuing the original ticket may provide refunds for unused portions of the customers’ original tickets. Administration fees may be charged.


Simplifier - Use of Train Company-specific tickets on another Train Company’s services

No opportunity to buy ticket before boarding

Railcard discounts: Yes provided the original ticket is discounted

Travel by a Train Company other than that stated on the ticket: Charge the appropriate Single or Return fare for the journey being made as if no ticket is held.

Opportunity to buy a ticket before boarding

Railcard discounts: No Railcard discount

Travel by a Train Company other than that stated on the ticket: Charge the full Single or Return fare for the journey being made as if no ticket is held.


Notes:

The above is subject to any local instructions;

Customer may be entitled to a refund on their original ticket;

Reference to ‘appropriate fare’ means the cheapest Single or Return ticket available for immediate travel on chosen service