A return ticket costing more than two singles

[All Line Rover]

I wonder which TOCs () would dare to price a return ticket at more than two singles?

I'm surprised I didn't spot this before, but Birmingham to Banbury costs £22 for an FDS or £45 for an FOR. That's right - £1 more than two FDS's! What will they come up with next? :roll:

I note that this "error" has been fixed in the latest fares round from 20/05/12 (NFM12), but I wonder if XC have any other fares like this? It wouldn't surprise me.

EDIT: Turns out Southern are at it too! Now am I surprised considering their Gatwick Express malarkey...

 

[SS4]

An FOR would be valid for considerably more time though.

 

[All Line Rover]

An FOR would be valid for considerably more time though.

What do you mean by "considerably more time?" Sureley you just buy one FDS when you make the outward journey, and one FDS when you make the return journey, thereby having unlimited flexibility as to which dates you make the outward and return journeys?

 

[Failed Unit]

Could you break your journey on the FDS?

 

[All Line Rover]

Could you break your journey on the FDS?

Of course, a BoJ is permitted on any Anytime ticket. To then suggest that you might have an overnight BoJ when travelling from Banbury to Birmingham...

I've just checked again, and discovered that it also costs more to buy an FDS from Banbury to Coventry or Birmingham International than it does from Banbury to Birmingham, even though half of the trains go via Coventry. This really is strange. (This particular problem isn't unique to XC, but the number of inconsistencies XC have is remarkable).

 

[lyndhurst25]

10 FOR F = 1 TO 99999
20 IF FOR(F) > (2*FDS(F)) THEN GOSUB 100
30 NEXT F
40 END
100 PRINT "ERROR IN FARES FOR FLOW ";F
110 RETURN

I can just about remember that from doing O-level computing in the 1980s. Do I get a well paid job along with the IT professionals at ATOS now?

 

[button_boxer]

What do you mean by "considerably more time?" Sureley you just buy one FDS when you make the outward journey, and one FDS when you make the return journey, thereby having unlimited flexibility as to which dates you make the outward and return journeys?

Assuming you want to make the whole journey in one day in each direction. The return ticket would be valid for five days out and a month return with unlimited breaks of journey, so I could do Birmingham to Coventry today, Coventry to Banbury on Friday, Banbury to Leamington next week and Leamington to Birmingham a fortnight later, for example...

 

[All Line Rover]

Assuming you want to make the whole journey in one day in each direction. The return ticket would be valid for five days out and a month return with unlimited breaks of journey, so I could do Birmingham to Coventry today, Coventry to Banbury on Friday, Banbury to Leamington next week and Leamington to Birmingham a fortnight later, for example...

I'm sure the vast majority of First Class travellers do that. I'm forgetting that Coventry is such a lovely destination.

 

[island]

There are several similar fares on the Brighton main line.

 

[All Line Rover]

There are several similar fares on the Brighton main line.

Would you mind quoting an example, as I am not familiar with that region?

 

[Failed Unit]

10 FOR F = 1 TO 99999
20 IF FOR(F) > (2*FDS(F)) THEN GOSUB 100
30 NEXT F
40 END
100 PRINT "ERROR IN FARES FOR FLOW ";F
110 RETURN

I can just about remember that from doing O-level computing in the 1980s. Do I get a well paid job along with the IT professionals at ATOS now?

No - you are too qualified.

 

[Mojo]

For those needing Anytime tickets travelling from Birmingham, in most cases it is cheaper to buy to Bicester North (priced by Chiltern) than to Banbury (priced by XC).

Fares to Bicester N appear first.
[B][COLOR="SeaGreen"]FOR[/COLOR][/B] £42.80 £45.00
[B][COLOR="Red"]SOR[/COLOR][/B] £22.50 ------
[b][COLOR="SeaGreen"]SDR[/COLOR][/b] ------ £19.10
[B][COLOR="SeaGreen"]FOS[/COLOR][/B] £21.40 ------
[b][COLOR="Red"]FDS[/COLOR][/b] ------ £22.00
[B][COLOR="SeaGreen"]SDS[/COLOR][/B] £16.40 £16.60

It is only if you want to do a same day return, and need an Anytime, buying to Banbury is cheaper.

 

[cjp]

For those needing Anytime tickets travelling from Birmingham, in most cases it is cheaper to buy to Bicester North (priced by Chiltern) than to Banbury (priced by XC).

Conversely as Chiltern have no Super off peak fare London to Bicester North it is cheaper to book Marylebone to Banbury rather than Bicester North (assuming the time restrictions suit your travel plan)

 

[Mushtimushta]

Southern do have a number of these on their patch - here are a few examples that I've discovered:

Brighton - Gatwick Airport - Std Class Single -£9.10, Std Class Anytime Day Rtn - £18.30
Brighton - Boundary Zone 6 - Std Class Single -£17.10, Std Class Anytime Day Rtn - £35.80.
Brighton to Hassocks, Lewes, Newhaven Hbr,/Tn, Seaford & Southease are all also wrong.

 

[Daz28]

Great example in this weeks Private Eye

Luton to Chesterfield SOR = £172.50

Weekly Season ticket = £158.70

The point the Eye was making is that customers will be fleeced by the ticket machines which only offer the SOR at peak times.

I appreciate the SOR is valid for up to a month on the return journey, but surely we should never have a single journey ticket more expensive than a season?

 

[island]

Don't ticket machines sell weekly seasons though?

 

[Daz28]

Don't ticket machines sell weekly seasons though?

I don't know if all of them do, but should we really have to check that the weekly ticket is cheaper than a standard return?

 

[Wolfie]

Don't ticket machines sell weekly seasons though?

Do you not need a photocard for a season ticket? A bit hard to get from a TVM.....

 

[bb21]

10 FOR F = 1 TO 99999
20 IF FOR(F) > (2*FDS(F)) THEN GOSUB 100
30 NEXT F
40 END
100 PRINT "ERROR IN FARES FOR FLOW ";F
110 RETURN

I can just about remember that from doing O-level computing in the 1980s. Do I get a well paid job along with the IT professionals at ATOS now?

In line with all those errors in the WebTIS engine, you definitely would, given that the compiler will throw a hissy fit by line 20 as you used a reserved keyword to name a variable. :-P

Sorry, couldn't resist.

As for those XC fares, I suspect that it had more to do with rounding errors when the pricing formulae were applied than there being any real conspiracy.

 

[All Line Rover]

Great example in this weeks Private Eye

Luton to Chesterfield SOR = £172.50

Weekly Season ticket = £158.70

The point the Eye was making is that customers will be fleeced by the ticket machines which only offer the SOR at peak times.

I appreciate the SOR is valid for up to a month on the return journey, but surely we should never have a single journey ticket more expensive than a season?

This is EVEN WORSE than the XC fare. :roll: Unlimited travel for an entire week for £14 less!

The worst one I knew about before this was Milton Keynes to Crewe - £152 for an SOR or £152.40 for a weekly season. But at least Virgin don't have the cheek to charge you more for the SOR!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Southern do have a number of these on their patch - here are a few examples that I've discovered:

Brighton - Gatwick Airport - Std Class Single -£9.10, Std Class Anytime Day Rtn - £18.30
Brighton - Boundary Zone 6 - Std Class Single -£17.10, Std Class Anytime Day Rtn - £35.80.
Brighton to Hassocks, Lewes, Newhaven Hbr,/Tn, Seaford & Southease are all also wrong.

Shocking, absolutely shocking. The difference isn't much, but it's the principal that two singles costing less than a return is inappropriate. And the above tickets are SDR's, so there are absolutely no benefits of buying a return! :roll:

I suppose these oddities are due to rounding errors, then. Although I always thought that tickets were rounded to the nearest 10p (?), not £1, which makes the XC example seem strange. In all of the cases, it's a reasonable expectation that the software used by TOC's use to calculate fare increases should pick these up in the first place.

 

[MikeWh]

I think the errors crept in because the DfT told the TOCs to re-calculate all the increases to RPI+1 instead of RPI+3 at the last minute. I'm expecting lots of little corrections to appear in the next NFM.

 

[OwlMan]

The 7DS is cheaper than the SOR for the following flows

Knebworth (Also Stevenage & Watton At Stone) To Oakham; Route Any Permitted SOR £181.50 7DS £111.70 [Reverse fares SOR £180.00 7DS £110.70]
Leagrave (Also Harpenden, Luton & Luton Airport Pw) To Chesterfield; Route Not Via London SOR £172.50 7DS £158.70
Leagrave (Also Harpenden, Luton & Luton Airport Pw) To Cattal (Also Poppleton, York, Church Fenton,Herburn In Elmt, Hammerton & Ulleskelf); Route Via Sheffield SOR £240.00 7DS £221.90
Strathcarron To Tain; Route Any Permitted SOR £24.50 7DS £23.60
Bedwyn (Also Kintbury, Thatcham, Newbury Racecse,Newbury, Theale, Hungerford, Aldermaston & Midgham) To Bruton (Also Castle Cary); Route Any Permitted SOR £88.00 7DS £85.20
Radlett (Also St Albans) To Chesterfield; Route Not Via London SOR £181.50 7DS £176.20
Goring & Strtley (Also Pangbourne) To Chippenham (Also Melksham); Route Not Via Reading SOR £66.00 7DS £64.30
Bath Spa (Also Oldfield Park) To Worcester Stns (Also Bromsgrove & Droitwich Spa Route Any Permitted SOR £133.00 7DS £130.00
Bedford Stations (Also Stewartby, Lidlington, Kempston Hardwk & Millbrook Beds) To Scunthorpe(Also Crowle & Althorpe Humber) Route Not Via London SOR £172.50 7DS £169.90
Northampton (Also Long Buckby) To Abergele & Pensn (Also Rhyl & Prestatyn); Route Any Permitted SOR£179.00 7DS £178.50


Peter