A scam phone calls and emails discussion.

[PeterC]

I very nearly got caught out this morning. I had an email from Royal Mail saying a parcel couldn't be delivered as some of the address was incorrect. The thing is, I was actually waiting for some parcels to be delivered (wife's birthday next week). So I clicked on the link. What woke me up was the email saying there would be a £3 charge for re-delivery, and the level of information they were asking for (for example mother's maiden name). When I stepped back it was obviously a scam - but in the moment it's just so so easy.

I had one of those a few weeks ago and was also waiting for a parcel. It was very convincing until I read as far as the "re-delivery charge".

 

[BanburyBlue]

I had one of those a few weeks ago and was also waiting for a parcel. It was very convincing until I read as far as the "re-delivery charge".

Yes, and with hindsight, Royal Mail normally shove a card through the door.

 

[Westcountryman]

Yes, and with hindsight, Royal Mail normally shove a card through the door.

But if the address is so poor that they couldn't deliver the parcel, how come it's good enough to put a card through the door?????

 

[ABB125]

But if the address is so poor that they couldn't deliver the parcel, how come it's good enough to put a card through the door?????

More to the point, why do Royal Mail have your email address? I've never needed to use an email address with them.

 

[87 027]

I saw a nasty variant of the Royal Mail redelivery charge scam on Twitter yesterday - the fraudsters have apparently registered a domain “royalmaii” (ending with two letter i’s) but in the scam message sent to your phone with a link to click, the second “i” is capitalised so it looks like the letter “l”

 

[najaB]

When I stepped back it was obviously a scam - but in the moment it's just so so easy.

That's the point - they're trying to catch people who are distracted or not paying attention.

 

[Jamesrob637]

The Royal Mail scam has made headline news now, such as this article from the Manchester Evening News:

Royal Mail issues urgent warning to millions of UK residents

People have been warned about a new delivery scam

www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk

Royal Mail issues urgent warning to millions of UK residents
People have been warned about a new delivery scam

 

[PeterC]

More to the point, why do Royal Mail have your email address? I've never needed to use an email address with them.

But you do give your email address and phone number to the shipper. People are used to being sent tracking links and going to couriers' websites so a supposed direct contact from a courier doesn't just jump out as false.

 

[najaB]

But you do give your email address and phone number to the shipper. People are used to being sent tracking links and going to couriers' websites so a supposed direct contact from a courier doesn't just jump out as false.

It's normally the sender who gives their phone number/email address to the courier, rather than the recipient. But you're correct that they are depending on people not thinking things through.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I wonder what the current percentage in the UK of successful police computer fraud operations is by the specialised department of the police forces in the UK that is known to their intelligence section?

 

[87 027]

As noted previously the problem is that this is cross border criminal activity facilitated over the internet where the perpetrators and victims are located in different jurisdictions. The Jim Browning YouTube video upthread explains some of the practical difficulties this presents, especially where the sums individual victims have been conned out of may not be viewed in isolation as especially significant in the grand scheme of things, and some jurisdictions are reputedly somewhat less concerned when it is not their own citizens who have been impacted. Intelligence is all well and good but you then need to build a case and secure convictions through due judicial processes.

The best advice is to be on your guard, look out for the tell-tale signs of a scam and don’t worry about being over cautious. Put the phone down and don’t follow any links in those emails or text messages.

 

[yorksrob]

As noted previously the problem is that this is cross border criminal activity facilitated over the internet where the perpetrators and victims are located in different jurisdictions. The Jim Browning YouTube video upthread explains some of the practical difficulties this presents, especially where the sums individual victims have been conned out of may not be viewed in isolation as especially significant in the grand scheme of things, and some jurisdictions are reputedly somewhat less concerned when it is not their own citizens who have been impacted. Intelligence is all well and good but you then need to build a case and secure convictions through due judicial processes.

The best advice is to be on your guard, look out for the tell-tale signs of a scam and don’t worry about being over cautious. Put the phone down and don’t follow any links in those emails or text messages.

We should be threatening those juristictions with trade barriers/lack of cooperation in other areas in that case.

If they're not concerned, we should make it a matter of their concern.

 

[Stan63]

I got the National Insurance scam call to my mobile this morning. I said nothing and it started with the automated message saying who they were so I just hung up and blocked the number but, as previous people have said, this is worse than useless as they change the numbers they call from almost at will. The good thing now is that there are plenty places online that will advise you of the latest scam so a quick search onlone will put your mind at rest.

Stan

 

[ainsworth74]

We should be threatening those juristictions with trade barriers/lack of cooperation in other areas in that case.

If they're not concerned, we should make it a matter of their concern.

India is one of the biggest sources of these sorts of scams and our trade with them is worth around £20bn. Which, considering the size of the Indian economy (somewhere in the region of $2.5 trillion), is not really going to motivate them all that much. Threatening them is extremely unlikely to yield positive results that will actually do anything to help with these scams.

 

[yorksrob]

India is one of the biggest sources of these sorts of scams and our trade with them is worth around £20bn. Which, considering the size of the Indian economy (somewhere in the region of $2.5 trillion), is not really going to motivate them all that much. Threatening them is extremely unlikely to yield positive results that will actually do anything to help with these scams.

I seem to recall that India had a beef with us regarding post graduate settlement rights a while back. We might consider making any movement on that dependant on action on these sort of scams.

 

[3rd rail land]

I very nearly got caught out this morning. I had an email from Royal Mail saying a parcel couldn't be delivered as some of the address was incorrect. The thing is, I was actually waiting for some parcels to be delivered (wife's birthday next week). So I clicked on the link. What woke me up was the email saying there would be a £3 charge for re-delivery, and the level of information they were asking for (for example mother's maiden name). When I stepped back it was obviously a scam - but in the moment it's just so so easy.

I had this one recently. Do Royal Mail ever email people or do they just leave a missed delivery card?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

I had this one recently. Do Royal Mail ever email people or do they just leave a missed delivery card?

Where would the genuine Postman Pat get your e-mail address from, for some random (non-delivered) over-sized parcel?

 

[najaB]

We should be threatening those juristictions with trade barriers/lack of cooperation in other areas in that case.

Simply not going to happen. The Government isn't going to jeopardise trade worth tens of billions over low-level fraud that probably doesn't even amount to tens of millions. Nor, I would argue, should they.

 

[PeterC]

Where would the genuine Postman Pat get your e-mail address from, for some random (non-delivered) over-sized parcel?

I have had legitimate emails about deliveries direct from other couriers so why should I expect Royal Mail to be different?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

I have had legitimate emails about deliveries direct from other couriers so why should I expect Royal Mail to be different?

I'll defer to you on that!

 

[najaB]

I have had legitimate emails about deliveries direct from other couriers so why should I expect Royal Mail to be different?

Are you sure they were direct from the courier and not from the retailer, with a "From" address set to that of the courier? It seems somewhat problematic from a data protection point of view for the retailer to give the courier your email address.

 

[eoff]

I have had legitimate emails about deliveries direct from other couriers so why should I expect Royal Mail to be different?

Experience.

Mind you, Royal Mail or ParcelForce seem to have upped their game in terms of delivery notification. It used to be that all you got was a domestic tracking number that only worked after delivery.

 

[PeterC]

Are you sure they were direct from the courier and not from the retailer, with a "From" address set to that of the courier? It seems somewhat problematic from a data protection point of view for the retailer to give the courier your email address.

I have never bothered to dig into the headers to check that level of detail but have certainly had messages labelled as "from" the courier as well as ones from the shipper with courier branded content and from the shipper with their own branded content. I also know that my phone number has been requested for use by the courier in the past.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I wonder what the current percentage in the UK of successful police computer fraud operations is by the specialised department of the police forces in the UK that is known to their intelligence section?

The nearest we will get to knowing that is the figures quoted in the automated response mails from the [email protected] e-address, updated monthly, which currently quotes:

As of 31st January 2021 the number of reports received stand at more than 4,500,000 with the removal of more than 30,000 scams and 55,000 URLs.

By my maths that is a 1 in 150 success rate on the basic numbers, but we must bear in mind that it is very likely that a given scam is being reported to them multiple times therefore the actual success rate will be far higher than it might seem at first. If each individual scam is being forwarded to them 100 times on average then the figure of 4,500,000 reports would be the equivalent of 450,000 reports which would mean the success rate is closer to 1 in 15.

I suspect it's likely to be a bit higher than that as it's likely that more than 100 reports will be received of each and every dodgy e-mail circulating.

 

[steamybrian]

I had a phone call today from phone no. 01296-715265 asking to confirm my address, details of age, whether employed, married, etc. So I thought I would have a bit of fun-
Firstly the address they gave was my previous address so I told them I had moved and gave a false address.
Age I gave was in my 30s although actually I am double that. Employed - I gave yes (actually retired), etc, etc.
In fact even detail I gave was false but she went away happy and so was I..........

 

[ABB125]

I had a phone call today from phone no. 01296-715265 asking to confirm my address, details of age, whether employed, married, etc. So I thought I would have a bit of fun-
Firstly the address they gave was my previous address so I told them I had moved and gave a false address.
Age I gave was in my 30s although actually I am double that. Employed - I gave yes (actually retired), etc, etc.
In fact even detail I gave was false but she went away happy and so was I..........

What was the reason for asking you to confirm your details? Did they say who they were allegedly working for?

 

[steamybrian]

What was the reason for asking you to confirm your details? Did they say who they were allegedly working for?

Said she was a marketing company doing a survey.
She had an Asian accent and I could hear voices in the background therefore guessed it was a "scammers" call centre.

 

[Gloster]

Not a ‘phone call or an actual e-mail, but I got a letter today addressed to X Neighbour (X being the name of my village). The letter itself was headed Hi Y Neighbours (Y being the name of my road) and invited me to download a free app called nextdoor to get useful information and keep in touch with neighbours: there was a code and a warning that it expires in 7 days. The text had a vaguely American feel, although that may just be modern style, and there was no return address, just the a name (unknown to me, but I don’t know most of my neighbours’ names) and the road name.

My first thoughts were: if they are my neighbours, why have they sent it via Royal Mail, and who is paying the 60p postage. A few codes on the envelope suggested it was a bulk mailing, although using a proper stamp, and at the bottom of the back of the envelope was a disclaimer that started ‘Marketing materials inside’.

Needless to say, it is going in the bin. (Anyway, I keep up with what is going on in my ‘neighbourhood’ in the traditional fashion: binoculars, infra-red sights and listening devices.)

 

[A Challenge]

Not a ‘phone call or an actual e-mail, but I got a letter today addressed to X Neighbour (X being the name of my village). The letter itself was headed Hi Y Neighbours (Y being the name of my road) and invited me to download a free app called nextdoor to get useful information and keep in touch with neighbours: there was a code and a warning that it expires in 7 days. The text had a vaguely American feel, although that may just be modern style, and there was no return address, just the a name (unknown to me, but I don’t know most of my neighbours’ names) and the road name.

My first thoughts were: if they are my neighbours, why have they sent it via Royal Mail, and who is paying the 60p postage. A few codes on the envelope suggested it was a bulk mailing, although using a proper stamp, and at the bottom of the back of the envelope was a disclaimer that started ‘Marketing materials inside’.

Needless to say, it is going in the bin. (Anyway, I keep up with what is going on in my ‘neighbourhood’ in the traditional fashion: binoculars, infra-red sights and listening devices.)

I had heard of them before, so I looked them up and I think Nextdoor is genuine, even if they aren't giving a service that can't be got elsewhere and probably better (not that I have any experience of them). Most of the results on a search go back to nextdoor's own website, but here is a third party article explaining what they do. While I'm not sure their service is a worthwhile offering, it seems like at least they aren't a scam.

The Nextdoor Business Model – How Does Nextdoor Make Money?

Nextdoor makes money via sponsored posts, fixed fees from local deals, as well as display ads that are shown in the app.

productmint.com

Nextdoor is a social networking app developed for local communities and neighbourhoods. Whereas traditional platforms such as Facebook or Instagram allow you to connect to users across the globe, the appeal of Nextdoor is that people in close proximity to each other (e.g. neighbours) form groups on the app.

....

Nextdoor is a venture-funded company, and as such, has previously not been required to generate any revenue to fuel its operations. Therefore, the company has not been making any money until four years ago.

As of 2016, the company has started to implement various income streams. Today, Nextdoor’s business model is based on three distinctive income streams: sponsored posts for different brands, local deals, and neighbourhood sponsorships.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Something of an issue with 'NextDoor' is that before long you tend to get spammed with notifications from local tradesmen touting their various services, but probably no worse than advertising leaflets and flyers pushed through your letterbox.

The postage on the card you received will have been paid for by 'NextDoor' who maintain a database of which addresses have signed up to the scheme. It is possible for users to check which addresses in the immediate locality is or isn't already signed up, and arrange for 'NextDoor' to send the postcards to neighbours who aren't yet.