TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
The weekend afforded me the rare opportunity to have a wander in two major Northern conurbations that I hadn't traipsed around in a while. Having had a boozy night out and then a hungover Parkrun, I began my Greater Manchester exploration.
First on the tick list was a trip on the Leigh Busway and the Vantage service. I used to live locally but some time ago when the Busway was nothing more than an aspiration. Well, I got on First 39251 at Swinton and off we headed. First impressions are the buses externally are more arresting than internally - they are a bit dull and not sumptuous. The route heads on the old rail line near Ellenbrook then scoots along. I'd never walked along there when I lived locally - never wanted or needed to. The upshot is that the route actually goes through a lot of scrubby countryside and not that many stops are close to houses (and so passengers), and few have parking facilities to allow Park and Ride (though Tyldesley does). Just seems a bit odd though perhaps the idea is that the busway will act as a catalyst for further development along the route. That said, we had a few hardy souls making a late morning trip into Leigh, and the passenger figures appear to be encouraging from the press reports.
Into Leigh and a bus station very much as I remember. I had time for a quick break and sampled the vista! As always, some smart Jim Stones kit and as it has been a little while since I'd been to Leigh, it was odd to see it dominated with Stagecoach fleet rather than First, since the sale of the Wigan depot. I got the frequent 658 to Wigan with e300 27827. Rather uneventful, a competent bus as we made our way past dozens of former pubs round Hindley etc. We arrived and I was confronted by the big new bus station in Wigan. Built on the site of the old one, it's huge. Massively impressive and impressively massive though I wondered if they couldn't have shrunk the site a bit?
After a short break, it was an Arriva 575 to Bolton. Despite this supposed to be a Sapphire route, standard Pulsar 3133 duly arrived. Not a bad bus though the seating was just beginning to look a bit faded and generally I find Arriva NW to be one of the better Arriva firms. I hopped off at Aspull to get the much less frequent Diamond 715. This is a great run out to Bolton, going through quite rural bits around Westhoughton and some decent views. The bus was a former Wessex B7RLE Centro (ex Bath). Now, I've criticised Rotala in the past and some of the failings experienced in Bristol and Worcestershire were evident here - a lack of internal promotion (though to be fair, that was a common experience even with Stagecoach). However, the internal presentation was actually very good, same externally and the driver (a young Asian woman) was excellent. The Atherton triangle between Manchester, Bolton and Wigan really is the heartland of Diamond though I did see plenty of Preston vehicles still with PB names working locally so not all good - hard to believe since last I was there when it was mainly tomato soup First with a small SLT operation.
We arrived into Bolton and another bright, shiny bus station. The old Moor Lane site was evident and now cleared. I assume the site was heavily contaminated with oil....mainly from the god awful café they had there!! With new bus stations in Wigan and Bolton, TfGM are really making some big strides with the quality of waiting facilities. We were now in First territory and I wanted to really get a feel for the First Greater Manchester operation - to understand why it seems in perpetual trouble, it being about 4 years since last I tried them and then in the Oldham and Rochdale areas.
First of all, the fleet isn't that old but let me qualify that. There's relatively little really old stuff - in Bristol and Bath, we have plenty of old W/51/52/53 reg deckers. In FGM, what I had was pretty typical - I had a 55 plate Eclipse to Farnworth, a 12 plate e400 to Pendleton and then a 14 plate Streetlite. The problem is so much of the First fleet is middle aged with lots of 2007-9 deckers and singles. Stagecoach have similar aged e400s but in lesser numbers and with plenty of newer fleet too. So what is wrong with First GM? Better people than me will know more accurately but the take aways for me were a badly skewed age profile with vehicles looking a bit tired (though not too bad for a 13 year old Eclipse). However, the 12 plate e400 was a really telling sight. Not a bad bus really but the interior (on a cold and wet day) was hardly inviting with standard grey eLeather. The internal adverts (when not telling you off) were probably new with the bus. Nothing really to grab you and my penultimate journey (don't worry, coming to it later) summed it up.
Another tick list was to experience part of the historic 53 service from Pendleton to Cheetham Hill via a laborious route avoiding the city centre. This was the 14 plate Streetlite (63153) and I was the only punter on it till reaching the Lowry. It was a wet Saturday afternoon but it was certainly a quiet journey, only really perking up just before I got off at the University. However, safe to say that its reason d'etre has been massively affected at least by the deindustrialisation and removal of housing from quite a bit of that route. I caught a Stagecoach e400hybrid back into the town, a 61 plate that looked a bit dowdy internally too but better than the First offering earlier. I now decided to head back to Leigh but on the old stopping service, Stagecoach's 34. This was a nice e400mmc (65 plate) but really pleasant. However, I had the entire top deck to myself until one person joined at Boothstown - Vantage has massively impacted this route but probably has enough from Astley and other places to justify its continued existence but again, whilst the interior was good, even Stagecoach struggle to promote their services.
Now, this was the moment that, to my mind, encapsulates the issues with First GM. My last but one bus was the 582 Leigh to Bolton service that I was getting to Atherton to catch a final V2. This is a core trunk service running every 8 minutes (so not clockface). I'd seen it earlier and it was operated by a mix of vehicles from a 12 plate B9, a 55 plate Eclipse, and a former Hampshire Eclipse still in its Fareham livery. My bus was an Eclipse (69521) dating from 2011 that had very nice aubergine leather seats and this batch should be the regular vehicles for the service. That vehicle is comfortable and it's a core service at a high frequency. The route branding externally was that the old 2012 low key rubbish from the early days of Urban https://www.flickr.com/photos/mals_...4j4-qN57Gg-VEg25p-CKdkF9-Bde1Kk-Moykav-xz1qHe - absolutely pointless and inconsequential. No interior branding or information and no fares promotion. I see what is happening to other OpCos (having been on West of England, Kernow, Cymru, Hampshire, Berkshire, and Wyvern this year - I've been about) and whilst they're not perfect and things are a bit inconsistent, at least they're doing something to grow their business albeit with limited funds. I don't pretend that the issues with First GM are easily soluble; they operate in some places where high street spending is collapsing fastest and that economic activity is low and deprivation is high. They have also been hit hard by the tram taking patronage but still it seems to be in some sort of torpor - can you imagine how much more noticeable something like this might be....https://www.flickr.com/photos/castlebay/27988244768/in/photolist-JDe55h-G2Av5B-2a8tmD8 - is this because they never had to work hard for passengers, they don't know how to? I just don't know.
In all, Stagecoach were the best of a rather disappointing bunch with modern clean buses but even then, lacklustre promotion. The OneBus "thing" seems to be confined to some vinyls liberally clagged onto some buses. If the operators wish to avoid franchising, they really need to be more creative and remove the perceived imperative that they're no good and only change is the answer and that it must be beneficial.
Hope I've been fair and not bored you too much. I'll do South Yorkshire when I've a moment
First on the tick list was a trip on the Leigh Busway and the Vantage service. I used to live locally but some time ago when the Busway was nothing more than an aspiration. Well, I got on First 39251 at Swinton and off we headed. First impressions are the buses externally are more arresting than internally - they are a bit dull and not sumptuous. The route heads on the old rail line near Ellenbrook then scoots along. I'd never walked along there when I lived locally - never wanted or needed to. The upshot is that the route actually goes through a lot of scrubby countryside and not that many stops are close to houses (and so passengers), and few have parking facilities to allow Park and Ride (though Tyldesley does). Just seems a bit odd though perhaps the idea is that the busway will act as a catalyst for further development along the route. That said, we had a few hardy souls making a late morning trip into Leigh, and the passenger figures appear to be encouraging from the press reports.
Into Leigh and a bus station very much as I remember. I had time for a quick break and sampled the vista! As always, some smart Jim Stones kit and as it has been a little while since I'd been to Leigh, it was odd to see it dominated with Stagecoach fleet rather than First, since the sale of the Wigan depot. I got the frequent 658 to Wigan with e300 27827. Rather uneventful, a competent bus as we made our way past dozens of former pubs round Hindley etc. We arrived and I was confronted by the big new bus station in Wigan. Built on the site of the old one, it's huge. Massively impressive and impressively massive though I wondered if they couldn't have shrunk the site a bit?
After a short break, it was an Arriva 575 to Bolton. Despite this supposed to be a Sapphire route, standard Pulsar 3133 duly arrived. Not a bad bus though the seating was just beginning to look a bit faded and generally I find Arriva NW to be one of the better Arriva firms. I hopped off at Aspull to get the much less frequent Diamond 715. This is a great run out to Bolton, going through quite rural bits around Westhoughton and some decent views. The bus was a former Wessex B7RLE Centro (ex Bath). Now, I've criticised Rotala in the past and some of the failings experienced in Bristol and Worcestershire were evident here - a lack of internal promotion (though to be fair, that was a common experience even with Stagecoach). However, the internal presentation was actually very good, same externally and the driver (a young Asian woman) was excellent. The Atherton triangle between Manchester, Bolton and Wigan really is the heartland of Diamond though I did see plenty of Preston vehicles still with PB names working locally so not all good - hard to believe since last I was there when it was mainly tomato soup First with a small SLT operation.
We arrived into Bolton and another bright, shiny bus station. The old Moor Lane site was evident and now cleared. I assume the site was heavily contaminated with oil....mainly from the god awful café they had there!! With new bus stations in Wigan and Bolton, TfGM are really making some big strides with the quality of waiting facilities. We were now in First territory and I wanted to really get a feel for the First Greater Manchester operation - to understand why it seems in perpetual trouble, it being about 4 years since last I tried them and then in the Oldham and Rochdale areas.
First of all, the fleet isn't that old but let me qualify that. There's relatively little really old stuff - in Bristol and Bath, we have plenty of old W/51/52/53 reg deckers. In FGM, what I had was pretty typical - I had a 55 plate Eclipse to Farnworth, a 12 plate e400 to Pendleton and then a 14 plate Streetlite. The problem is so much of the First fleet is middle aged with lots of 2007-9 deckers and singles. Stagecoach have similar aged e400s but in lesser numbers and with plenty of newer fleet too. So what is wrong with First GM? Better people than me will know more accurately but the take aways for me were a badly skewed age profile with vehicles looking a bit tired (though not too bad for a 13 year old Eclipse). However, the 12 plate e400 was a really telling sight. Not a bad bus really but the interior (on a cold and wet day) was hardly inviting with standard grey eLeather. The internal adverts (when not telling you off) were probably new with the bus. Nothing really to grab you and my penultimate journey (don't worry, coming to it later) summed it up.
Another tick list was to experience part of the historic 53 service from Pendleton to Cheetham Hill via a laborious route avoiding the city centre. This was the 14 plate Streetlite (63153) and I was the only punter on it till reaching the Lowry. It was a wet Saturday afternoon but it was certainly a quiet journey, only really perking up just before I got off at the University. However, safe to say that its reason d'etre has been massively affected at least by the deindustrialisation and removal of housing from quite a bit of that route. I caught a Stagecoach e400hybrid back into the town, a 61 plate that looked a bit dowdy internally too but better than the First offering earlier. I now decided to head back to Leigh but on the old stopping service, Stagecoach's 34. This was a nice e400mmc (65 plate) but really pleasant. However, I had the entire top deck to myself until one person joined at Boothstown - Vantage has massively impacted this route but probably has enough from Astley and other places to justify its continued existence but again, whilst the interior was good, even Stagecoach struggle to promote their services.
Now, this was the moment that, to my mind, encapsulates the issues with First GM. My last but one bus was the 582 Leigh to Bolton service that I was getting to Atherton to catch a final V2. This is a core trunk service running every 8 minutes (so not clockface). I'd seen it earlier and it was operated by a mix of vehicles from a 12 plate B9, a 55 plate Eclipse, and a former Hampshire Eclipse still in its Fareham livery. My bus was an Eclipse (69521) dating from 2011 that had very nice aubergine leather seats and this batch should be the regular vehicles for the service. That vehicle is comfortable and it's a core service at a high frequency. The route branding externally was that the old 2012 low key rubbish from the early days of Urban https://www.flickr.com/photos/mals_...4j4-qN57Gg-VEg25p-CKdkF9-Bde1Kk-Moykav-xz1qHe - absolutely pointless and inconsequential. No interior branding or information and no fares promotion. I see what is happening to other OpCos (having been on West of England, Kernow, Cymru, Hampshire, Berkshire, and Wyvern this year - I've been about) and whilst they're not perfect and things are a bit inconsistent, at least they're doing something to grow their business albeit with limited funds. I don't pretend that the issues with First GM are easily soluble; they operate in some places where high street spending is collapsing fastest and that economic activity is low and deprivation is high. They have also been hit hard by the tram taking patronage but still it seems to be in some sort of torpor - can you imagine how much more noticeable something like this might be....https://www.flickr.com/photos/castlebay/27988244768/in/photolist-JDe55h-G2Av5B-2a8tmD8 - is this because they never had to work hard for passengers, they don't know how to? I just don't know.
In all, Stagecoach were the best of a rather disappointing bunch with modern clean buses but even then, lacklustre promotion. The OneBus "thing" seems to be confined to some vinyls liberally clagged onto some buses. If the operators wish to avoid franchising, they really need to be more creative and remove the perceived imperative that they're no good and only change is the answer and that it must be beneficial.
Hope I've been fair and not bored you too much. I'll do South Yorkshire when I've a moment
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