Abellio Great Anglia - Train Dispatch.

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G0ORC

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After a long time away from some of my old haunts I decided to do a little tour around Anglia yesterday.

I was very surprised to hear, on the 1100 Norwich - Liverpool Street, the senior conductor attributing some of the accrued 8 minutes delay to "passengers leaving doors unattended and failing to close doors at Stowmarket".

I wasn't actually sure what that meant (the "unattended" bit) and then I noticed that a recurring theme across all of my travel on slam-door stock yesterday was the same. Station and on-board announcements, on-board sineage all emphasise the need for passengers to close doors and windows when getting on and off trains.

This made me think.

1) So I'm vigilant and I close my door, trapping someone else's hand in it. Who is responsible?

2) Norwich and Ipswich excepted, all manned stations seemed to have no where near enough staff to deal with this issue of leaving doors open on a long (8 vehicle?) rake. All four trains I travelled on incurred significant station overtime at Stowmarket, Diss, Manningtree and Colchester for this very reason.

3) I rather took exception to the guard, pleasant though he was, blaming the punters for delays which are the responsibility of the TOC concerned. Closing doors is not a passenger responsibility nor should they be "blamed" for a failure to do so.

I went home on the 1955 St. Pancras - Leeds, an HST. I didn't notice EMT making too much, or even anything, of the "leaving doors open" thing.

Is it just AGA having this problem, or is too few staff and too tight station dwell times an issue for them.

Thoughts?
 
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Dave1987

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So you are asked politely to close the door behind you (obviously if no one is behind you trying to board), what exactly is hard about that? I really don't see your issue here at all. If people cannot close doors behind them and staff have to go along closing doors then of course dwell times will be extended.
 

G0ORC

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So you are asked politely to close the door behind you (obviously if no one is behind you trying to board), what exactly is hard about that? I really don't see your issue here at all. If people cannot close doors behind them and staff have to go along closing doors then of course dwell times will be extended.

So you're happy with the conductor attributing the delay to the passengers then?
 

Domh245

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1) So I'm vigilant and I close my door, trapping someone else's hand in it. Who is responsible?

Closing a door onto someone's hand doesn't strike me as the action of someone who is being vigilant. You'd be at fault.

2) Norwich and Ipswich excepted, all manned stations seemed to have no where near enough staff to deal with this issue of leaving doors open on a long (8 vehicle?) rake. All four trains I travelled on incurred significant station overtime at Stowmarket, Diss, Manningtree and Colchester for this very reason.

It wouldn't be a problem if people closed the doors! Would you be able to justify the extra staffing costs to provide people to close doors on a relatively small number of trains per day?

3) I rather took exception to the guard, pleasant though he was, blaming the punters for delays which are the responsibility of the TOC concerned. Closing doors is not a passenger responsibility nor should they be "blamed" for a failure to do so.

Sure, but there are plenty of signs asking passengers to close the doors once they've dis/embarked. Without a massively sarcastic "Apologies - the doors don't close themselves" I don't see what they can do other than hiring more staff or retrofitting automatic doors - not that they'll do either of that because it seems to be expected that the mk3s will be replaced in the next franchise.
 

LAX54

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Passengers cant be bothered, seen some at Diss and Stowmarket, no one waiting to get on, no one getting off except for 1 person....leaves the door wide open, Guard or Station Staff have to wlak down and close the door.

Wonder if the same people leave their car door or front door open, thinking, someone else can shut that !

Then they moan the train is late !
 

Dave1987

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So you're happy with the conductor attributing the delay to the passengers then?

Well if that's the cause of the delay, do you suggest they make something up? Slam doors will be gone soon so the problem won't exist.
 

Darandio

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3) I rather took exception to the guard, pleasant though he was, blaming the punters for delays which are the responsibility of the TOC concerned. Closing doors is not a passenger responsibility nor should they be "blamed" for a failure to do so.

Thoughts?

They could lie of course, and blame something else. I sense you would take 'exception' to that as well though.
 

HH

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I went home on the 1955 St. Pancras - Leeds, an HST. I didn't notice EMT making too much, or even anything, of the "leaving doors open" thing.

EMT have a lot more staff on their stations. But then their stations are generally busier. Maybe they can afford more staff...
 

LowLevel

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EMT have a lot more staff on their stations. But then their stations are generally busier. Maybe they can afford more staff...

To be fair with the exception of Chesterfield all the calling points on that particular service (St Pancras, Leicester, Derby, Sheffield, Wakefield Westgate) are fairly major stations well endowed with dispatch staff - the likes of Wellingborough, Market Harborough etc where the station staff multi task between manning the booking office and dispatching trains are quite often short staffed with self dispatch messages going out, and time lost consequently.
 

306024

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The AGA Conductors are very good and announcing / requesting people to close doors behind them. Most regulars get the message and some even close other open doors as they walk past.

Compare in my experience to Great Western where such announcements are not generally made. There (and their) passengers don't seem to be as well trained. Closing doors may not be a passenger responsibility, but I'd suggest it is common courtesy, a feature that is disappearing from modern life it seems.

Dwell times off peak are tight, but there is already enough comment about the journey time to Norwich without adding to it.
 
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IKB

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1) So I'm vigilant and I close my door, trapping someone else's hand in it. Who is responsible?

If you close the door on someones hand then it's your fault, unless they put their hand in the way after you had pushed the door. Either way it's an accident without criminal intent.

3) I rather took exception to the guard, pleasant though he was, blaming the punters for delays which are the responsibility of the TOC concerned. Closing doors is not a passenger responsibility nor should they be "blamed" for a failure to do so.

If people took a responsible and common sense approach then they would close a door after opening it. Unfortunately people don't really care about any hold ups they cause, but shout from the rafters when their train is delayed. These same people leave rubbish strewn everywhere, expect someone else to clean it up and have no respect for their surroundings. Britain in 2016: "I'm alright Jack" and "not my job mate".
 

dk1

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It is very noticeable & irritating at weekends when punters leave doors open & dither around in their own little world. If hearing the guards announcement that they are the ones causing delays just makes one person think, then job done! The best bunch are Manningtree commuters who not only close their door if last out but close other doors too including droplights to stop the draft.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
If people took a responsible and common sense approach then they would close a door after opening it. Unfortunately people don't really care about any hold ups they cause, but shout from the rafters when their train is delayed. These same people leave rubbish strewn everywhere, expect someone else to clean it up and have no respect for their surroundings. Britain in 2016: "I'm alright Jack" and "not my job mate".

Here here!! Common sense & courtesy to others.
 

TheManBehind

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Well if that's the cause of the delay, do you suggest they make something up? Slam doors will be gone soon so the problem won't exist.

I used to simply explain that it was due to taking more time at the station than expected. Cryptic, but I usually followed it up with "can I please remind you all to make use of all the doors along the train", which leaves them in no doubt why without actually blaming them outright ;)

Got me past my rides anyway!
 

Master29

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This will soon be an irrelevant topic anyway but what is the problem closing doors. I always do on a GWR HST if no one else is around and I do get thanked by staff sometimes.
 

Phil.

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After a long time away from some of my old haunts I decided to do a little tour around Anglia yesterday.

I was very surprised to hear, on the 1100 Norwich - Liverpool Street, the senior conductor attributing some of the accrued 8 minutes delay to "passengers leaving doors unattended and failing to close doors at Stowmarket".

I wasn't actually sure what that meant (the "unattended" bit) and then I noticed that a recurring theme across all of my travel on slam-door stock yesterday was the same. Station and on-board announcements, on-board sineage all emphasise the need for passengers to close doors and windows when getting on and off trains.

This made me think.

1) So I'm vigilant and I close my door, trapping someone else's hand in it. Who is responsible?

You are.


2) Norwich and Ipswich excepted, all manned stations seemed to have no where near enough staff to deal with this issue of leaving doors open on a long (8 vehicle?) rake. All four trains I travelled on incurred significant station overtime at Stowmarket, Diss, Manningtree and Colchester for this very reason.

This is the same problem on FGW staffed stations. Dispatch staff don't seem to have worked out that you stand at one end of the platform and walk to-wards the other closing doors as you go. If there's two then you both work outwards from the centre. I watched a pair at Taunton a few weeks ago who walked to-gether along the train.

3) I rather took exception to the guard, pleasant though he was, blaming the punters for delays which are the responsibility of the TOC concerned. Closing doors is not a passenger responsibility nor should they be "blamed" for a failure to do so.

True but nevertheless a polite request does no harm.

I went home on the 19.55 St. Pancras - Leeds, an HST. I didn't notice EMT making too much, or even anything of the "leaving doors open" thing.

Probably no need as the trains are not tightly timed.

Is it just AGA having this problem, or is too few staff and too tight station dwell times an issue for them.

No and probably. But Anglia platform staff do have two speeds, slow and slower.

Thoughts?
.....
 
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