Abellio Greater Anglia Class 755s (Regional Trains)

[edwin_m]

It's fairly typical for a new fleet to need some minor gauging tweaks, especially platform edges - look at how much has had to be done for the 80x units. If any major structural work is needed, or huge numbers of platforms are our of gauge then someone has dropped a clanger. The level boarding of these units means that platform interface will be more critical than for other fleets, and some platform work could actually be to reduce stepping distance rather than eliminating any possible fouling.

 

[Wivenswold]

Are signal sight-lines included in those gauging requirements too?

I'm thinking that the issue sounds worse than it really is and that gauging issues are perfectly normal for new stock. Though if the don't fit in Ipswich Tunnel side by side, then it's clearly a huge mess-up.

 

[F Great Eastern]

Nothing would surprise me to be honest from my dealings with them about new trains, they have not exactly inspired confidence in every contact I have had with the project team and the communications between departments don't seem to be the best.

One of the benefits of the FGE Desiro introduction into service was that First used the expertise of what went wrong with the 175 and 180 order with FNW and FGW and got an excellent product team with excellent communication across the board and got a group of experts together..

I have generally been less than impressed by how the process has been handled to date because the project team just hasn't inspired confidence for me, it feels like they are inexperienced in a project of this magnitude, do we know if any of the senior management has experience in delivering projects of this type?

 

[Bornin1980s]

I think the requirement for a wheelchair to pass through is about 900mm. Some wheelchairs may be wider and there needs to be room for the user to turn the wheels with their hands. However, there is no requirement for a wheelchair to pass through the gangway as long as there is an accessible route between the wheelchair space and the accessible toilet, which are always next to each other.

If the 945mm wide V8 engines are used, that would leave less than 900mm for the corridor. Do you know what the legal minium width for train corridors actually is?

The Italian units use the V8 engines, but are barely wider than the UK units. Any pictures of their engine bay corridor?

 

[LAX54]

Lets hope NR get it right when designing the access and egress from the new depot at Brantham, it has the possibility if not done right, to give rise to rather a lot of delay !

 

[eastdyke]

Lets hope NR get it right when designing the access and egress from the new depot at Brantham, it has the possibility if not done right, to give rise to rather a lot of delay !

This is the drawing showing the proposed depot as submitted with the planning application 14th March 2017 [pdf]:
https://planning.babergh.gov.uk/onl...9BD7075B5/pdf/B_17_00441-SITE_PLAN-477814.pdf

The plan shows a single connection to the depot from new facing pointwork from the down main at the southern tip of the site. A new trailing crossover is also shown between the connection and Cattawade Viaduct (the north eastern most of the 2 wooden trestle bridges over the River Stour).

East Anglian Daily Times reported 23rd June that planning permission had been given the 'green light':
http://www.eadt.co.uk/news/plans-fo...pot-in-brantham-get-the-green-light-1-5076237

Plans for a multi-million pound train maintenance depot in Brantham have been given the go ahead by Babergh District Council.

The planning status does not yet seem to be updated on the Babergh Distict Council website which still states 'pending decision'.
https://planning.babergh.gov.uk/onl...?activeTab=summary&keyVal=_BABER_DCAPR_117887

 

[LAX54]

This is the drawing showing the proposed depot as submitted with the planning application 14th March 2017 [pdf]:
https://planning.babergh.gov.uk/onl...9BD7075B5/pdf/B_17_00441-SITE_PLAN-477814.pdf

The plan shows a single connection to the depot from new facing pointwork from the down main at the southern tip of the site. A new trailing crossover is also shown between the connection and Cattawade Viaduct (the north eastern most of the 2 wooden trestle bridges over the River Stour).

East Anglian Daily Times reported 23rd June that planning permission had been given the 'green light':
http://www.eadt.co.uk/news/plans-fo...pot-in-brantham-get-the-green-light-1-5076237



The planning status does not yet seem to be updated on the Babergh Distict Council website which still states 'pending decision'.
https://planning.babergh.gov.uk/onl...?activeTab=summary&keyVal=_BABER_DCAPR_117887

Currently its a set of switches going into / out of depot, bi-di from depot to 1261's (trailers down main), then run up to Up Platform at Manningtree, or onto the North Curve, they are the only 'options' at the moment, we are hoping they get changed soon ! ( 1 in 40 to / from depot)

 

[eastdyke]

Currently its a set of switches going into / out of depot, bi-di from depot to 1261's (trailers down main), then run up to Up Platform at Manningtree, or onto the North Curve, they are the only 'options' at the moment, we are hoping they get changed soon ! ( 1 in 40 to / from depot)

The clock is ticking!

 

[eastdyke]

East Anglian Daily Times reported 23rd June that planning permission had been given the 'green light':
http://www.eadt.co.uk/news/plans-fo...pot-in-brantham-get-the-green-light-1-5076237

The planning status does not yet seem to be updated on the Babergh District Council website which still states 'pending decision'.

The 'planning status' was updated on the Babergh District Council site 30th June.
The decision notice grants approval subject to 33 itemised conditions [pdf]:
https://planning.baberghmidsuffolk....60EB154D53F285739/pdf/B_17_00441--3033573.pdf

Amongst those of particular interest are:

21.ONGOING RESTRICTION ON DEVELOPMENT: SHIFT PATTERN
The shift pattern of the workforce shall not include start or finish times between 0730-0900 and 1600 -1730 to avoid peak travel times.
Reason- To avoid additional use of Factory Lane by vehicles in peak hours in the interests of highway safety.

I guess that this may only cause minor inconvenience to the operation of the site as a Rail Depot. But when I worked at the site in the late 1960's there were many hundreds of day staff with those start/finish times!

31.ONGOING RESTRICTION OF DEVELOPMENT: CONSTRUCTION HOURS
The permitted hours of work when noise can be audible at a construction
site boundary are:
MONDAY TO FRIDAY 8:00am to 6:00pm
SATURDAY 8:00am to 1:00pm
SUNDAY AND BANK HOLIDAYS No work allowed
Any noisy operations outside these hours cannot be undertaken without
prior approval of the Environmental Services department and permission
is only granted in exceptional circumstances, e.g. emergency works, in which
case the Environmental Health Section should be contacted as soon as possible.
Reason- In the interests of amenity.

This condition is very likely to make the construction phase both of longer duration and more costly than would otherwise be the case.

 

[jopsuk]

if they've been following all normal procedure, including pre-application meetings with council officers, these conditions will have been expected and planned for

 

[Wivenswold]

Those site conditions are very much the normal even for smaller construction projects, the contractors will have been expecting them and will know how to work with and around them.

 

[eastdyke]

if they've been following all normal procedure, including pre-application meetings with council officers, these conditions will have been expected and planned for

Those site conditions are very much the normal even for smaller construction projects, the contractors will have been expecting them and will know how to work with and around them.

I fully understand all of that.

I find it ironic, especially in the case of condition 21, that a development designed to enable and enhance rail travel for many thousands of people (ergo not using cars and roads) and with a small workforce based at that development should end up with such an ongoing restriction. Especially in the light of the many hundreds of workers at the same site that were not subject to any similar restriction in the past.

I am not a planning expert but it might not actually pass the reasonableness test (for such a condition).

 

[Wivenswold]

Absolutely @eastdyke. There is an absence of joined-up thinking in many of these conditions.

 

[edwin_m]

Does the restriction on shift working apply only during construction? It is stated to be "ongoing" but so is the other restriction quoted, which clearly only applies during construction.

 

[eastdyke]

Does the restriction on shift working apply only during construction? It is stated to be "ongoing" but so is the other restriction quoted, which clearly only applies during construction.

If the shift hours restrictions applied only to construction then I am pretty sure that it would say so.

 

[Class 170101]

Currently its a set of switches going into / out of depot, bi-di from depot to 1261's (trailers down main), then run up to Up Platform at Manningtree, or onto the North Curve, they are the only 'options' at the moment, we are hoping they get changed soon ! ( 1 in 40 to / from depot)

Hopefully sense will be seen and Bi-Directional running between Manningtree North Jn and Manningtree Station South Jn on the Down Main will be instigated.

 

[D6975]

Absolute madness.
One derailment first thing in the morning and half your fleet is immediately out of commission.
A second access at the opposite end of the depot is essential, preferably a copy of the existing planned access, complete with trailing crossover, accessed via the headshunt.

 

[Bornin1980s]

I think the requirement for a wheelchair to pass through is about 900mm. Some wheelchairs may be wider and there needs to be room for the user to turn the wheels with their hands. However, there is no requirement for a wheelchair to pass through the gangway as long as there is an accessible route between the wheelchair space and the accessible toilet, which are always next to each other.

You're right. Last week, I checked out the corridor connection on a 156. Very narrow (I'm able bodied). I also saw a Virgin Trains floor chart showing that some aisles were as narrow as 550mm. I wonder if the law will ever require fully accessible train gangways throughout. Apart from ending the power pack experiment, this would necessitate radical changes to mainline seating.

 

[jopsuk]

a 900mm aisle throughout would mean ripping out 1/4 of standard class seats throughout 2+2 carriages, 2/5 in a 2+3 carriage and either narrower seats in 1st class on intercity or losing 1/2 the seats there

UK trains are only about 2700-2800mm wide across the widest part. At least 100mm of that is the walls of the train, they're all narrower at floor level.

 

[LAX54]

Absolute madness.
One derailment first thing in the morning and half your fleet is immediately out of commission.
A second access at the opposite end of the depot is essential, preferably a copy of the existing planned access, complete with trailing crossover, accessed via the headshunt.

Have been advised they cannot do an Ipswich end acess due to the proximty of the UKPN overhead stuff, gets too close to our / AGA depot OHL

Still no sign of Bi-Di Depot to Down Platform either, just as far as the crossover / North Curve, not ideal

 

[eastdyke]

Are GA going to be able to improve timimgs on the Felixstowe's?

The 153's (23m long) have just 4 minutes in the public timetable at each end and sometimes struggle.

With 3 car FLIRT's (65m long) on-board staff have an extra 42m to walk twice an hour

(And that's just off the train).

 

[grumblingalong]

Are GA going to be able to improve timimgs on the Felixstowe's?

The 153's (23m long) have just 4 minutes in the public timetable at each end and sometimes struggle.

With 3 car FLIRT's (65m long) on-board staff have an extra 42m to walk twice an hour

(And that's just off the train).

Improved performance of the flirts over the 153s should negate the walking time

 

[87015]

Have been advised they cannot do an Ipswich end acess due to the proximty of the UKPN overhead stuff, gets too close to our / AGA depot OHL

Still no sign of Bi-Di Depot to Down Platform either, just as far as the crossover / North Curve, not ideal

Its being done on the cheap, don't expect any bells or whistles...

 

[dk1]

Are GA going to be able to improve timimgs on the Felixstowe's?

The 153's (23m long) have just 4 minutes in the public timetable at each end and sometimes struggle.

With 3 car FLIRT's (65m long) on-board staff have an extra 42m to walk twice an hour

(And that's just off the train).

Don't forget on busy trains the 15X units are a nightmare for staff getting in/out due to passengers getting in the way. Like 170s we will have our own dedicated cab doors.

 

[Class 170101]

Absolute madness.
One derailment first thing in the morning and half your fleet is immediately out of commission.
A second access at the opposite end of the depot is essential, preferably a copy of the existing planned access, complete with trailing crossover, accessed via the headshunt.

Still no sign of Bi-Di Depot to Down Platform either, just as far as the crossover / North Curve, not ideal

I wouldn't worry about a derailment. You will only need a points failure at Manningtree North Jn and the whole thing will be screwed. 16 units or something trapped. A nice big bill for NR! I reckon NR will do something to mitigate that risk.

 

[dp21]

For anyone interested, construction has now started on the Anglia FLIRTs. There's a photo circulating internally of just a large metal panel (no idea what it is) which was taken by the new trains director however haven't seen it publicised so am reluctant to share just yet.

 

[Wivenswold]

Rail Technology Magazine say new images of the 745/755s have been released but only show a couple of new photos with a slightly different front-end design and yellow first class stripe.

 

[LAX54]

Its being done on the cheap, don't expect any bells or whistles...

Ops Staff at Colchester are badgering NR to do bi-di to the Down Platform and use the Back Platform, whether that will be sucessfull is another matter !

 

[dp21]

Rail Technology Magazine say new images of the 745/755s have been released but only show a couple of new photos with a slightly different front-end design and yellow first class stripe.

What I find interesting is that there's going to be different coloured stripes for different areas. Blue for disabled access, green for bike areas and yellow for first class.

 

[Bletchleyite]

What I find interesting is that there's going to be different coloured stripes for different areas. Blue for disabled access, green for bike areas and yellow for first class.

Perhaps better than Chiltern using yellow to mean something other than First Class.