Abellio Greater Anglia Class 755s (Regional Trains)

[samuelmorris]

I'd completely forgotten about them, the experiment at what building a Thumper in a Mk3 body might be like.

I imagine the NIR Class 450 is a much better example of that than the 210.

 

[Z12XE]

Looks smart in that photo, although I do wonder about that cab door, is the drivers conversion course going to require a session of weight watchers for some

 

[edwin_m]

Wow. The more I'm discovering about these the more it seems like they're just a design for low platformed railways which for some bizarre reason a British operator has ordered despite it being unsuited. A multiple unit design which can't be altered, for example, to have gangway connections between units working in multiple, and with a corridor through an engine compartment. They sound lovely.

I'd completely forgotten about them, the experiment at what building a Thumper in a Mk3 body might be like.

Having the engines in a separate module allows the floor in most of the passenger area to be level with the standard platform height. In theory this allows level boarding without a ramp, although it will be interesting to see how this works on curved platforms or those of varying height. It also allows the DMU to be identical to an EMU, just with the engine module. I don't think any of the branch lines have significant train length constraints so the extra length of the engine module probably doesn't matter - but it might be one reason way Northern, for example, isn't buying this design.

 

[ac6000cw]

They are designed with a low floor section to provide level boarding at existing platforms (they have extending step boards too) to make life easier for passengers, particularly those in wheelchairs etc. - railways in the UK are well behind the curve on providing this, messing about with wheelchair ramps at stations seems archaic compared to how modern low-floor buses and light rail vehicles provide this. This reduces the space for equipment under the floor, so it has to go somewhere else...

Also having the diesel engines in a separate 'vehicle' helps to isolate their noise and vibration from the passenger space.

 

[jamesontheroad]

Above floor engines in a DMU are more recent than that: the Class 210s had them.

I'd completely forgotten about them, the experiment at what building a Thumper in a Mk3 body might be like.

I imagine the NIR Class 450 is a much better example of that than the 210.

Indeed, that's exactly what I was thinking, although they were weird concoctions... a mark 3 body shell on a mark 1 chassis with engines from circa 1966 NIR Class 70!

 

[47802]

Wow. The more I'm discovering about these the more it seems like they're just a design for low platformed railways which for some bizarre reason a British operator has ordered despite it being unsuited. A multiple unit design which can't be altered, for example, to have gangway connections between units working in multiple, and with a corridor through an engine compartment. They sound lovely.
.

Well yes they an adapted low floor design but so what? they look excellent to me and will probably be superior to travel on compared to a CAF 195, although I expect the Stadler units are more expensive, and perhaps a bit overkill for some of the branches they will work, they would seem to me to more suited as a long distance Regional Train.

 

[ac6000cw]

Well yes they an adapted low floor design but so what? they look excellent to me and will probably be superior to travel on compared to a CAF 195, although I expect the Stadler units are more expensive, and perhaps a bit overkill for some of the branches they will work, they would seem to me to more suited as a long distance Regional Train.

They are 'regional' trains really, but that is what most of the (non-London) GA network is - Norwich-Cambridge(-Stansted in the future), Cambridge-Ipswich, Peterborough-Ipswich, Lowestoft-Ipswich - and GA and their predecessors have been quite successful at building up the traffic on those routes.

 

[Rick1984]

Also when you wire up all your lines you can simply remove the power module. Unlikely to happen in East Angelia but maybe if they ended up being cascaded in the distant future.

 

[AlexNL]

Wow. The more I'm discovering about these the more it seems like they're just a design for low platformed railways

That's how they started out, but the FLIRT platform has grown in many ways.

which for some bizarre reason a British operator has ordered despite it being unsuited.

I disagree. Stadler are masters at making a reusable design which is suited to almost any use case - from 2-car rural branch line unit to 8-car intercity train. Low platforms, high platforms, low speed, high speed... you name it, Stadler will build it.

A multiple unit design which can't be altered, for example, to have gangway connections between units working in multiple,

As someone from the continent, I've never really understood the British fascination with gangways. What problem do they solve? And isn't there a more practical approach?

Here in the Netherlands, NS have indicated "boarding zones" at some platforms where regional trains stop. They ask passengers to wait in that zone to even out loadings across the train, as each platform along the route has a different boarding zone. "A train is always guaranteed to stop there". It is slowly gaining traction.

and with a corridor through an engine compartment.

A result of adding diesel to an electric train.

The alternative would've been underfloor engines (as in the 800s) which would have an impact on the passenger experience. And it would've potentially made level access impossible - which is unpreferrable. It really speeds up boarding, quite a lot!

They sound lovely.

If the FLIRT UK is anything like the mainland FLIRT 3 (mechanically, ride quality), it will be a very good train. The quality of the interior is down to the operator's choice, for which Abellio have asked quite a lot of input.

 

[edwin_m]

Also when you wire up all your lines you can simply remove the power module. Unlikely to happen in East Angelia but maybe if they ended up being cascaded in the distant future.

You could even replace it with a battery or hydrogen module.

 

[DenmarkRail]

That's how they started out, but the FLIRT platform has grown in many ways.

I disagree. Stadler are masters at making a reusable design which is suited to almost any use case - from 2-car rural branch line unit to 8-car intercity train. Low platforms, high platforms, low speed, high speed... you name it, Stadler will build it.


As someone from the continent, I've never really understood the British fascination with gangways. What problem do they solve? And isn't there a more practical approach?

Here in the Netherlands, NS have indicated "boarding zones" at some platforms where regional trains stop. They ask passengers to wait in that zone to even out loadings across the train, as each platform along the route has a different boarding zone. "A train is always guaranteed to stop there". It is slowly gaining traction.


A result of adding diesel to an electric train.

The alternative would've been underfloor engines (as in the 800s) which would have an impact on the passenger experience. And it would've potentially made level access impossible - which is unpreferrable. It really speeds up boarding, quite


If the FLIRT UK is anything like the mainland FLIRT 3 (mechanically, ride quality), it will be a very good train. The quality of the interior is down to the operator's choice, for which Abellio have asked quite a lot of input.

From what I’ve heard from some guys (albeit I don’t know where they heard this from) the interior specs are very similar to the Abellio flirts they have on the mainland Europe... I’ve never been on an Abellio one though.

 

[AlexNL]

the interior specs are very similar to the Abellio flirts they have on the mainland Europe... I’ve never been on an Abellio one though.

I've found a video on YouTube of the RE 19 Arnhem - Düsseldorf, which is operated by Abellio with FLIRT3 trains:

 

[RLBH]

As someone from the continent, I've never really understood the British fascination with gangways. What problem do they solve? And isn't there a more practical approach?

I'm not convinced by the 'evening out loading' argument, but it does lead to situations where staff are restricted to one unit. As a passenger, there's nothing more annoying than 'there is a trolley service in the front three cars only'.

Here in the Netherlands, NS have indicated "boarding zones" at some platforms where regional trains stop. They ask passengers to wait in that zone to even out loadings across the train, as each platform along the route has a different boarding zone. "A train is always guaranteed to stop there". It is slowly gaining traction.

As far as I can tell, the British argument against that is that operators want the flexibility to kick out a 2-car Class 158 with end doors on a route normally operated by a 3-car Class 170 with doors at thirds, or something similar. If they don't tell people what to expect then there won't be confusion when something different happens.

 

[dp21]

Also when you wire up all your lines you can simply remove the power module. Unlikely to happen in East Angelia but maybe if they ended up being cascaded in the distant future.

Quite right - it's designed to be an electric train with, essentially, a power station in the middle.

Also, bear in mind that at cruising speed these things only run on one engine so will be quite quiet.

The decision to have the separate power pack as per other FLIRTs and the GTW before it is a combination of your low floors and also maintainability. The 755 engines will be removable by forklift and will be in the correct orientation and not bombarded by ballast and other nastiness unlike more 'traditional' British DMUs. This should drive increased engine reliability.

You could even replace it with a battery or hydrogen module.

My understanding is that on the BMU3s it is the intention to experiment with battery technology because the power pack has 4 bays, two of which will be free and the batteries allegedly can get you a good 60 miles. We'll see if it actually happens though.

 

[Grumbler]

I've found a video on YouTube of the RE 19 Arnhem - Düsseldorf, which is operated by Abellio with FLIRT3 trains:

There are many videos fearuring the Stadler Flirts on YouTube, in particular some very impressive inter-city trains in Poland. Just search for "Stadler" and they will come up.

 

[Wivenswold]

I seem to recall someone saying the Polish intercity ones are pretty close to the Anglia ones, seen a few videos for them.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I seem to recall someone saying the Polish intercity ones are pretty close to the Anglia ones, seen a few videos for them.

Been on one and they are nice enough. High floor throughout so not quite the same.

 

[E_Reeves]

Are they going to go into service with or without yellow front ends? Some units have them and some don't from the photos so far...

 

[Wivenswold]

According to one highly reliable poster on here, all of the new GA stock will have a small yellow panel.

 

[DenmarkRail]

According to one highly reliable poster on here, all of the new GA stock will have a small yellow panel.

Stupidly and annoyingly this is true.

 

[E_Reeves]

Stupidly and annoyingly this is true.

I think it looks better with the yellow warning panel

 

[Loki]

The Welsh ones shouldn't have it.

 

[Wivenswold]

I'd prefer without but I don't think we should take safety concerns lightly. The days of a near annual big train crash on the system are thankfully consigned to history for good reasons.

 

[mmh]

I've found a video on YouTube of the RE 19 Arnhem - Düsseldorf, which is operated by Abellio with FLIRT3 trains:

At 1:40 it's interesting that first class on that train is a door and an anti-macassar, these trains would fit in well on Southern!
They don't look awful, but the walk through carriages and lack of carpet gives it a bit of a spartan look. Are the raised seats at the carriage ends because they're over the bogies? Is the aisle raised here too?

 

[mmh]

I seem to recall someone saying the Polish intercity ones are pretty close to the Anglia ones, seen a few videos for them.

The Polish intercity ones do seem to have a much nicer interior layout - still a little stark looking, but with decent looking seats and doors between the saloons, vestibles and carriage connections. (The video I just watched has something a little odd in it, some luggage racks are on the saloon side of the doors, others are in the vestibule)

 

[Loki]

I'd prefer without but I don't think we should take safety concerns lightly. The days of a near annual big train crash on the system are thankfully consigned to history for good reasons.

Check my previous post about yellow panels.

 

[AlexNL]

At 1:40 it's interesting that first class on that train is a door and an anti-macassar, these trains would fit in well on Southern!
They don't look awful, but the walk through carriages and lack of carpet gives it a bit of a spartan look.

This Abellio FLIRT is a regional train, it surprises me that they have even bothered to put in first class at all!

Are the raised seats at the carriage ends because they're over the bogies? Is the aisle raised here too?

Yes, the seats and aisle are raised because they're directly above the bogie. You don't see it well in the video, in the NS FLIRT it's more apparent because a yellow contrast stripe was added to the floor (at 0:25):

 

[Bletchleyite]

Almost all German trains have 1st.

 

[DenmarkRail]

Check my previous post about yellow panels.

Almost all German trains have 1st.

Im actually going to defend British railways for a min... German first class is half hearted compared to U.K. it’s just a seat on the continent. Rarely free catering.

 

[F Great Eastern]

It's not 'free' catering, it's 'included in the price' catering.