axlecounter
Member
Yes it was a serious post. There are definitely a lot of very well-working Stadler products out there and a lot more coming. I’m not sure the two you mentioned only have plain Stadler-related problems.
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Abellio Greater Anglia Class 755s (Regional Trains)
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dk1
Veteran Member
Stadler.
dp21
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Yes - they're the only ones allowed to touch it at the moment aside from any GA drivers needed to shunt them about.
jayiscupid
Member
Not sure how a PKP flirt can be "shortformed" as it's a single 8 car unit.
It might be a silly question. When the bi-mode units drive in the diesel mode do the engines actually drive power the wheels directly (I mean via transmission) or generate power for the electric motors which then actually drive the wheels?
43096
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They generate power which is fed to electric traction motors that are at the end of each unit.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Coaches locked out perhaps? I was going to say swapped with the piece of garbage that is the PESA DART, but those are 8 "car" too (and really, really rubbish).
axlecounter
Member
My understanding is that this way the diesel engines can be kept at an optimal speed regardless of train speed, thus augmenting efficiency. Is that correct?
43096
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I don't know to be honest, I don't know enough about them to comment.
edwin_m
Veteran Member
Broadly true, but the main reason in this case is because the train is a bi-mode so the same motors can be used for power in either the electric or the diesel mode.
eastdyke
Established Member
407 on the way?
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/R28256/2018/11/29/advanced
Currently in the Ipswich area ...
robreed90001
Member
407 on the way?
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/R28256/2018/11/29/advanced
Currently in the Ipswich area ...
755407 did indeed arrive this morning (66001 hauling it), managed to see it at Diss.
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Out of interest - these units are being hauled by a 66 without a translator/barrier vehicle, so presumably there's a coupling adaptor and some kind of simple translation provided for the braking system? Just thinking of the comparison with the 700s, which were marshalled between brake force wagons in their early deliveries and had translator wagons for the later ones. Just wondering if the Stadler trains are particularly special in this regard.
These Stadlers are a huge step up from the trains they are replacing aren’t they?
I can imagine some occasional punters on the branches thinking “what the hell is this” and wondering whether they are actually supposed to be getting on it or waiting for the usual old thing to turn up!
I can imagine some occasional punters on the branches thinking “what the hell is this” and wondering whether they are actually supposed to be getting on it or waiting for the usual old thing to turn up!
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
That they are. The last time there were decent new trains for branch lines was the mid 1980s with the coming of Class 150 - it's about time. the next Northern franchise really needs to do the same.
I can see the same problem up here in Scotland when an HST turns up in place of a 170.
F Great Eastern
Established Member
Should be a step forward for the DMU branch lines without doubt, especially those operated by 153/156 unit and the two car 170s.
Time will tell about the ones replacing the loco hauled sets, want to be on one before I judge.
Yep. On the intercity routes too, the Mk3's are life expired. The experience on them is woeful. The branch lines aren't too bad, the 170's are nice when they aren't rattling but the sprinters are getting on a bit.
43096
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They are not "woeful". Had a pair of Renatus Bins back last time I went to Norwich. THAT was a really poor experience - totally unsuited to the duty.
306024
Established Member
From a passengers point of view the MkIII first class is fine, but standard class is a bit claustrophobic as they now have more seats that originally designed for. Mechanically they are struggle to maintain, especially when half the maintenance depot is missing.
The experience for branch line passengers will indeed be a revolution, but it is the London end of this franchise that earns the corn. The EMU replacement is the bigger challenge.
F Great Eastern
Established Member
The Refurbishment that NXEA did was utter crap, but the one done by GA last year or so was far better, I felt they were extremely tired before GA refurbished them, but a full retrim and newer tables and carriage walls and adding sockets and new lighting really made a difference.
F Great Eastern
Established Member
They are crap, I've been on them three times now and honestly the build quality is very poor, they are rattly, there are clearly some electrical issues, very poor wide quality, broken AC, blocked off plug sockets, often the PIS doesn't work and doors are not always working properly.
The seats are better than on the pre Renatus 321s and the lighter is better and they look a bit more modern inside, however they are a prime example of how renders and mock-ups and pictures only tell you so much.
samuelmorris
Established Member
I'm not sure I'd describe them as crap, but they are admittedly no substitute for new stock. Predominantly that's due to the shortcomings inherent in the Mk3 EMU design (i.e mostly the doors) but they are very much a 'bottom-tier' quality affair, everything that's been refitted has been the cheapest possible option, which is why it's a bit surprising the seats aren't as bad as some others, I believe they're Quantum seats? They're still not wonderful but they're better than some modern EMU seats.
The PIS doesn't work because it's not been changed, they simply resprayed the casings of the old PIS displays, which were known for being very poor, to the extent the OEM went bust over it. Rather than replace with new units, a Chinese electronics firm was commissioned to manufacture spares for the defective ones instead. Design-wise, other than not having done anything with the doors (which was probably prohibitively expensive for a refurbishment) they're fairly decent. The interior looks modern and bright, the seating position is better, the A/C is very welcome and the AC traction to a small extent makes the noise level less obtrusive, but some units are going around with knackered gearing which negates the benefit of that last point, the regen in the traction controller is hopeless as it only applies at one particular brake setting (I think notch 2 maybe?), doesn't synchronise with other units in the consist (even if they are also Renatus units) and just generally the ride is jerkier than before, which is the opposite of what IGBT drives are supposed to, and normally, achieve.
Ultimately, a closer look in real life does make you realise it's a fairly decent design implemented at low cost, with signs of that all over.
A Renatus 321 vs a 755 or hopefully also a 720 should be a really noticeable change, but nonetheless I'm glad they made at least some of the 321s more tolerable to travel on during the summer months. Above 18°C outside I'd rather have one than one of the originals. The way things are going at the moment, Renatus units will be working alongside 755s and 745s for some time.
The PIS doesn't work because it's not been changed, they simply resprayed the casings of the old PIS displays, which were known for being very poor, to the extent the OEM went bust over it. Rather than replace with new units, a Chinese electronics firm was commissioned to manufacture spares for the defective ones instead. Design-wise, other than not having done anything with the doors (which was probably prohibitively expensive for a refurbishment) they're fairly decent. The interior looks modern and bright, the seating position is better, the A/C is very welcome and the AC traction to a small extent makes the noise level less obtrusive, but some units are going around with knackered gearing which negates the benefit of that last point, the regen in the traction controller is hopeless as it only applies at one particular brake setting (I think notch 2 maybe?), doesn't synchronise with other units in the consist (even if they are also Renatus units) and just generally the ride is jerkier than before, which is the opposite of what IGBT drives are supposed to, and normally, achieve.
Ultimately, a closer look in real life does make you realise it's a fairly decent design implemented at low cost, with signs of that all over.
A Renatus 321 vs a 755 or hopefully also a 720 should be a really noticeable change, but nonetheless I'm glad they made at least some of the 321s more tolerable to travel on during the summer months. Above 18°C outside I'd rather have one than one of the originals. The way things are going at the moment, Renatus units will be working alongside 755s and 745s for some time.
Wivenswold
Established Member
The experiences of the loco-hauled/pushed sets seems to vary wildly. My mate, a First Class season ticket holder, loves them as did my former boss who had a first class season from Diss to London. Then we come to people I know who commute on them in Standard Class, "Cramped", "saggy seats with no support", "Struggle with the doors", "Long queues to get off", "poor standing provision" and on. All mentioned the annoying jolts though obviously those in comfy big seats up front were less concerned. And to add from my regular experience, they're drafty if you can't get in the saloon, they wreck dwell times with everyone getting off before anyone can get on and air-con, wifi and lighting cannot be guaranteed.
To be fair to GA, like all their other refurbs, they've done a pretty good job of improving their reliability and have at least brightened them up inside but their days as a suitable long-distance commuter train are gone. Especially as commuting has gotten more long-distance.
I'll miss locos on passenger services and will mourn their passing but, it's a public service first and foremost and the public deserve better than 1970's coaching stock that's already been cascaded twice from other main lines. And the GEML has had a good run with loco-hauled passenger services considering their demise elsewhere on equivalent services in the South East.
To be fair to GA, like all their other refurbs, they've done a pretty good job of improving their reliability and have at least brightened them up inside but their days as a suitable long-distance commuter train are gone. Especially as commuting has gotten more long-distance.
I'll miss locos on passenger services and will mourn their passing but, it's a public service first and foremost and the public deserve better than 1970's coaching stock that's already been cascaded twice from other main lines. And the GEML has had a good run with loco-hauled passenger services considering their demise elsewhere on equivalent services in the South East.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
The grey-with-red-highlights moquette looks really quite classy, too. I'm quite pleased to see we will be getting similar (with dark green highlights instead) on the WCML.
Sean Emmett
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OK, I got criticised on the Filton Bank thread for using the official station codes without explanation, but they are rather straightforward to look up.
But, please, what on earth is a "Renatus Bin". Google not much help!
Kyle1
Member
Renatus bin = Refurbed class 321
43096
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Renatus is the refurbishment programme for the first 30 Class 321s (321301-330) currently drawing to a close at Doncaster.
Class 321s are called Dusty Bins (or just Bins) after the 1980s TV game show 3-2-1 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3-2-1) which featured a "prize" of "Dusty Bin".
Sean Emmett
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Ok thx, but Renatus? Bin?
I'm obviously missing an in-joke!
hexagon789
Veteran Member
(Dusty) Bin is the nickname for 321s and 320s (possibly used for 322s as well?)
Renatus is the name for the 320 refurbishment programme which includes things such as re-tractioning.