Abellio Greater Anglia new Stadler Flirt trains.

Discussion in 'Traction & Rolling Stock' started by swt class 450, 15 Jun 2017.

  1. ScotGG

    ScotGG Member

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    Blimey and that's before another 1,000 homes kick off in the area
     
  2. swills

    swills Established Member

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    So if he works, or has connections with AGA, you are expecting him to risk his job ?
     
  3. whhistle

    whhistle Established Member

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    There's no risk if you release anonymously...
    Like I say, that's how rumours start. Seen it loads of times on here. Not completely doubting but I bet you things aren't exactly how the OP described - people have opinions that get in the way of facts.
     
  4. swills

    swills Established Member

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    Rest assured, they would / could find out, I have seen it done ! (more than once)
     
  5. F Great Eastern

    F Great Eastern Established Member

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    People are not going to leak top secret or confidential for internal eyes only documents - if some other posters think that is going to happen then they are kidding themselves.

    Other people are also not going to name their sources because to do so will both make the source dry up and possibly get them the sack.
     
  6. swills

    swills Established Member

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    and, if some AGA staff, and NR staff are not allowed to see some documents, as they don't need to know about it, and will be advised in due course if they do, why do some with no connection at all, think it should be a 'free for all' ?
     
  7. Wivenswold

    Wivenswold Established Member

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    I should step in and say that there is likely to be legal process involved, particularly with regard to the Aventra delays. So not only would I expect GA staff to be concerned about losing their jobs if they say too much there could actually be a confidentiality agreement or even an injunction in place that could have legal consequences beyond an individual employee's rights under their contract of employment.

    We should therefore not pressure anyone to give information they legally cannot provide.
     
  8. Greg Read

    Greg Read Member

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    And I would have thought, no concern of anybody really, well not on here anyway, the new units will start when they are ready, as did the DBSO/321/DVT/360 changeovers.
     
  9. EssexGonzo

    EssexGonzo Member

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    Well, they are of concern to many, aren't they? Passengers are concerned about when additional capacity, reliability and things like aircon come into service? There are many reasons why these trains have been ordered therefore the drivers of those reasons are important. And if people stop being concerned, why would they actually go ahead? And this is a critical piece of public infrastructure.

    But not to the point of putting pressure on staff to do thing they shouldn't.
     
  10. 47421

    47421 Member

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    See below. Not rumours but statements based on a reading of the publicly available Franchise Agreement (google will take you to it, and can word search to find the full legal language if you want to confirm for yourself). BTW gives me no satisfaction to record these failings of GA/rest of rail industry.

    A selection of GA Franchise Commitments:
    • By 31 Oct 18 - 27 x 317 to be fitted with ASDO and 96 platforms to have ASDO beacons. Seems to have been abandoned
    • No date specified, but must mean by 31 Dec 19 latest - 27 x 317 to have PRM mods. Only one sent away so far so no prospect of 27 being done by deadline
    • "The Franchisee shall implement the Approved Detailed Design for each of the Redevelopment Stations in order that the redevelopment work is completed in accordance with the Approved Detailed Design by no later than: (a) 31 December 2019 in the case of Broxbourne Station, Cheshunt Station, Harlow Town Station and Southend Victoria Station; (b) 31 December 2020 in the case of Cambridge Station". Is this happening? Dont see any evidence of it on the ground
    • "By no later than the next Fares Setting Round occurring after 1 May 2018, the Franchisee shall make available to passengers for the remainder of the Franchise Period Anytime Flex Carnet and the -Off Peak Flex Carnet". Never happened
    • "By no later than 30 April 2019, the Franchisee shall launch a six (6) month pilot utilising near field communication". What are the chances??
    • "By no later than 30 January 2019, the Franchisee shall use its best endeavours to implement cloud based post-pay ticketing on Passenger Services between London Stations and Southend, Norwich or Cambridge ". Nope
    • TSR2 May 19 - extra TPH off peak to Hert East and Southend Vic, extra TPH Liv St to Norwich (extension of Ipswich semi fast), Norwich Camb extended to Stansted Airport all day. Nope, Nope, Nope and Nope
    • "infrastructure works at each of Hertford East, Wickford, Manningtree, Kings Lynn, Elsenham, Ware, St Margarets and Enfield Lock Stations as are necessary to enable any Passenger Services comprised of 10 rolling stock vehicles to call at such Stations by no later than 1 September 2018". Nope - NR have this down as a 2021 event. No info on what stock is expected to run to Hert East until then
    • STAR, originally due Dec 18, deferred by NR to May 19, now extra services not expected until Sept 19 earliest
    • By 31 Dec 2018 ontrain wifi on entire existing fleet. Nope
    • TSR3 May 20 - extra 1144 services a week. No chance. I would be surprised if it was half that number.
    And then there is the 720 mess, which gets worse by the day.
    And the finance mess, with £80m of the £280m buffer spent by March 2018, and lots more expected to be spent by March 19.
     
  11. hwl

    hwl Established Member

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    Ped flow modelling for trains is reasonable but not completely reliable as the test subjects in the lab used to calibrate models tend to be students being offered a free lunch etc. Most of the time the results are very reliable compared to real life but well honed commuters (with hundreds/thousands of learning cycles) often out perform the students/ modelling based on students in real life. As seen with Thameslink Core to a certain extent.
    They are effectively hoping/ praying that there are enough well honed commuters are on the Airport services in peak (the counter side to that is there will also be first time users with luggage...) that some of the well honed commuter magic gets those dwells down to 90s and the better door performance and acceleration etc. of 720s helps elsewhere.

    DfT were focuced on seats and Abellio bid team gave them seats.
    It will be interesting to see how long those 720 vestibule tip up seats last!
     
  12. RailWonderer

    RailWonderer Member

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    Given all the talk about Stadler doors and every aspect of the new Swiss trains, I wouldn’t be surprised if the new timetable recast for 2020 sees the FLIRTS omit all Tott Hale and Stratford stops and go Liv St - Harlow and Liv St - Chelmsford non stop to keep to timings and kerb overcrowding
     
  13. jopsuk

    jopsuk Veteran Member

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    Stansted Airport would be deeply unhappy if Tottenham Hale was removed from the Express route.
     
  14. fat_boy_pete

    fat_boy_pete Member

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    Currently LST-NRW are non stop to Colchester anyway and the new 'NRW in 90' diagrams are non stop to IPS . Stratford and Chelmsford stops are infrequently done in off peak only.
     
  15. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    Given that (a) they didn't order enough IC FLIRTs, and (b) there are these dwell issues, and (c) StanEx isn't a premium service, it's mass transport of Ryanair passengers competing with the coaches, I'd suggest a prudent course of action would be to alter the interiors of the StanEx FLIRTs to be the same as the IC ones and use Aventras on the StanEx.
     
  16. 306024

    306024 Established Member

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    Stratford and Chelmsford stops are part of the current off peak pattern in the xx.30 from LST and xx.00 from NRW.

    Spot on in all respects.
     
  17. 306024

    306024 Established Member

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    Not the worst idea by any stretch. Unfortunately that ship may have already sailed.
     
  18. 700007

    700007 Member

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    Harlow would be dropped before Tottenham Hale (TOM) on the Stansted Express. It would be a silly move for GA to remove TOM calls as that would cost a lot of revenue from Stansted passengers getting off the Victoria line. Stansted Express is one of the few lines at GA that is truly a money making cash cow at present.

    Either way, Stansted Airport would be unhappy, London Underground would also be unhappy and most importantly, Greater Anglia would be unhappy.
     
  19. Class 170101

    Class 170101 Established Member

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  20. theking

    theking Member

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    Not sure how people can think one door per car is acceptable and is not going to increase station stop times unless on inter city stuff with long dwells doesn't matter if it's a double door or not.

    It's bad enough getting people to move half a car down to the next door imagine them having to move a whole car down absolute madness
     
  21. dk1

    dk1 Established Member

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    Not much can be done about it now.
     
  22. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    In any case they are short vehicles and the door is at or near the middle.
     
  23. hwl

    hwl Established Member

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    But not shorter than the current EMU cars and the doors at double the spacing compared to the existing EMUs on the Airport services.
     
    Last edited: 17 Mar 2019
  24. Alfie1014

    Alfie1014 Member

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    That’s going to cost another couple of diagrams when they’re already short especially with the 720s still no closer to introduction.

    Also anyone know why the Cheshunt stops have been removed from the 07:30 and 08:00 Broxbourne to Liv St SX from Monday for the remainder of the timetable. Lots of negative feedback on Twitter about it and GAs response is some wibble about new trains coming and timetables?
     
  25. 306024

    306024 Established Member

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    Apparently those Broxbourne starters lose time due to overcrowding further up the Lea Valley, so it’s a performance initiative.

    They were only introduced in December 2011 as the Hertford East services previously used to run up the Lea Valley, but became too overcrowded. Now even an additional 8 car can’t cope adequately with the volume of passengers it seems.
     
    Last edited: 16 Mar 2019
  26. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    18m, no? 2m shorter than the EMUs.

    Though I do retain the view that they'd be best putting all the FLIRT EMUs on the Norwich services and Aventras on StanEx.
     
  27. MrPIC

    MrPIC Member

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    How come?
     
  28. hwl

    hwl Established Member

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    They didn't order enough Aventras! either hence musical chairs on it own isn't enough.
    Agreed on the sensible thing being to modify and transfer the Airport to "Norwich" IC and then retain and refurb the circa half the 379s for the Airport work.
     
  29. hwl

    hwl Established Member

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    Intermediate car lengths on 745s and 755s are very different, on 745s just short of 20m (similar to driving cars) or in simple terms 2 windows longer than on the bi-mode 755s. The 755 intermediate cars are very short compared to the driving cars...

    The 745s are only 6m shorter than a 12car 360 /321.
     
    Last edited: 17 Mar 2019
  30. 47421

    47421 Member

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    The Brox starters (and terminators in the PM) are indeed poor timekeepers and have been for years. The underlying problem is that the 30 sec dwell times are totally unrealistic. But if dwell times increase to 1 min the timetable doesn't work officially as well as just in reality as now. I am surprised NR have allowed situation to go on for so long. Removing stops is far from ideal, already the Lea Valley is a strange mix of skip stopping locals with a few StanExp stops stirred in the up in AM peak with long gaps in some journeys, eg with those two stops removed there is no direct service Ches to Ponders End for 90 mins.

    10 car 720s may help spread the load but will SDO be permitted everywhere? Enfield Lock is a problem - signal in up direction is at end of platform so SDO means overhanging busy road crossing where barriers are already down 30mins + an hour in peak.
     

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