Abellio: not happy with competitors to Bike & Go?

[jamesontheroad]

Last week the Chinese dockless bike sharing scheme Ofo launched here in Norwich. This is the third city outside of London to get Ofo, after Cambridge and Oxford. There are initially around 200 bikes for hire; just download the app, register a payment card and unlock it by activating bluetooth and scanning a QR code on your phone. 50p per half hour, maxiumum £5 per day.

I've been using the bikes quite a bit, in no small part because they're free for the first few weeks. Their geo-fence covers most of central Norwich, UEA and the inner suburbs. Like Boris bikes they're a bit heavy and have quite a short seat post, so encourage a more lazy style of riding.

Norwich City Council have been supportive, but it seems like Abellio are not so keen. I've noticed that bikes are never available on station property, and my own observations and word of mouth from others suggests that Ofo marshalls are responding to requests from Abellio by regularly moving them off station property to bike racks on adjacent 'public' property, or the Waterside Entertainment complex.

Is Abellio chewing away on some sour grapes, given the spectacular unpopularity of their subscription-based Bike & Go scheme (which was discussed last year in this closed thread)? I cycle a lot in Norwich, for leisure and for work, and the only Bike & Go bike I have ever seen in use was by an Abellio employee heading home from work.

 

[TheDavibob]

It's an intriguing counterpoint to Cambridge, where Abellio seem to have no problem with Ofo bikes at either station (and, of course, there is no Bike and Go), with Ofo in fact using both stations as a base of sorts (I know there'll always be a bike at North, for example). Given the best use of such bikes is precisely to get to/from stations (residents will most likely use their own in most other cases) it makes a lot of sense for Ofo to focus on that.

 

[JaJaWa]

Ridiculous - the only schemes I would consider using are TfL’s in Central London (with plenty of docking stations so you can leave the bike almost anywhere and easy payment for occasional use) or app-based (where you can leave the bike almost anywhere and easy payment for occasional use). Bike&Go offers neither of those crucial features for a cycle hire scheme so no wonder it was a total failure.

I would email Abellio to complain, particularly if the bikes are being used frequently enough that they don’t exceed time limits at the station.

 

[NorthernSpirit]

I prefer Bike&Go, as your guarentted that either the thing will either have a bent wheel, or its rusty or someone has swipped parts off them.

 

[HH]

I prefer Bike&Go, as your guarentted that either the thing will either have a bent wheel, or its rusty or someone has swipped parts off them.

And those are desirable traits?

 

[dk1]

Bike&Go has gone down in the history books as one of the biggest ever franchise commitment flops Always nice & Dusty when I pass them in the racks.

 

[radamfi]

The Dutch equivalent to Bike & Go, OV Fiets, which it is obviously what Bike & Go is based on, is probably the most successful bike hire service in the world. OV Fiets is a lot better as all you need to do is pick up a bike and swipe your card. You don't need to queue at a ticket office.

 

[JohnR]

What are the comparable prices like? I looked at Bike & Go in Dundee, but it seemed too expensive compared to the cost of getting a Bus ticket.

 

[SaveECRewards]

Bike and Go to me is a totally different scheme to TfL Cycle Hire or Ofo/Obike/etc the latter schemes encourage short term rentals, whereas bike and co is charged per 24 hours.

The rate for 24 hours isn't bad and so in a way it's a shame this scheme is a flop as it has a different use case.

I used it at Liverpool Street twice and both times the person at the counter I went to didn't know what to do and had to ask a colleague. They also warned me the bikes were quite dusty meaning I'd probably been the first to use them in a while.

If you could collect them without visiting the ticket office then it'd be much better.

 

[NorthernSpirit]

And those are desirable traits?

Well considering that Bike&Go can be regarded as a failure as the fleet of bikes I've seen are damaged (e.g a bent wheel at Buxton) or are rusting away (Hebden Bridge) or have parts missing (Rochdale) - which displays the whole set up in a negative light.

All it takes is one visitor to where the scheme is in use to find that they have to sign up and deal with a load of complexites even before they get the key to unlock the thing.

Plus it has to be said - when was the last time these pushbikes were maintained?

Had the scheme been developed to run in the same way as the Boris Bikes, then it could've be regarded as a success, and even more of a success had it been rolled out across the country rather than selected locations.

 

[jamesontheroad]

What are the comparable prices like? I looked at Bike & Go in Dundee, but it seemed too expensive compared to the cost of getting a Bus ticket.

It's £10 per year for the subscription, and then £3.80 per 24 hours rental... so on par with the cost of a PlusBus ticket in most cities.

Compare with Ofo, for example, which has no subscription and is 50p per 30 minutes, with a maximum daily cap of £5.

For the sake of a comparison, if you commuted by train every day, and rented a bike to commute less than 30 minutes to work, it'd cost £19 a week with Bike & Go (plus your annual subscription), or £5 a week with Ofo. B&G has the advantage of pretty much guaranteeing a bike will be there when you arrive, but they don't appear to be as well maintained. Here in Norwich there appears to be a team of about six or seven Ofo marshalls who are pulling in bikes for repairs and redistributing them as needed. The test will be whether they continue to be as well maintained after spending a winter out doors.

 

[JohnR]

It's £10 per year for the subscription, and then £3.80 per 24 hours rental... so on par with the cost of a PlusBus ticket in most cities.

Compare with Ofo, for example, which has no subscription and is 50p per 30 minutes, with a maximum daily cap of £5.

For the sake of a comparison, if you commuted by train every day, and rented a bike to commute less than 30 minutes to work, it'd cost £19 a week with Bike & Go (plus your annual subscription), or £5 a week with Ofo. B&G has the advantage of pretty much guaranteeing a bike will be there when you arrive, but they don't appear to be as well maintained. Here in Norwich there appears to be a team of about six or seven Ofo marshalls who are pulling in bikes for repairs and redistributing them as needed. The test will be whether they continue to be as well maintained after spending a winter out doors.

PlusBus in Dundee is £2.50 a day (£11 a week) - which is what I was comparing it to. Problem is that the busses dont stop at the station.

 

[jamesontheroad]

PlusBus in Dundee is £2.50 a day (£11 a week) - which is what I was comparing it to. Problem is that the busses dont stop at the station.

And it's Dundee, which would test my commitment to cycling right through the winter

 

[Bletchleyite]

To be fair none of the schemes are intended for commuting - providing that kind of capacity is really difficult and that need is better met by storing your own bike at both ends. The London scheme deliberately places docking stations slightly away from stations.

 

[SaveECRewards]

To be fair none of the schemes are intended for commuting - providing that kind of capacity is really difficult and that need is better met by storing your own bike at both ends. The London scheme deliberately places docking stations slightly away from stations.

Not always... Waterloo has a massive dock by the station entrance and it's regularly replenished

 

[InOban]

To be fair none of the schemes are intended for commuting - providing that kind of capacity is really difficult and that need is better met by storing your own bike at both ends. The London scheme deliberately places docking stations slightly away from stations.

That's odd. In Scotland, Abellio are keen to encourage their use for 'last mile' journeys, to discourage passengers from bringing bikes on trains. It's what the Dutch do, but mind you they have to pay to take their bike on a train.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That's odd. In Scotland, Abellio are keen to encourage their use for 'last mile' journeys, to discourage passengers from bringing bikes on trains. It's what the Dutch do, but mind you they have to pay to take their bike on a train.

Last mile journeys yes, but providing the capacity for *commuters* to use them is much harder than providing a bus or Tube service.

They are much better suited to leisure journeys.

 

[jopsuk]

I'm still surprised as to how terrible Bike & Go is, given that Abellio had the experience of OV-Fiets to draw upon.

 

[HH]

I'm still surprised as to how terrible Bike & Go is, given that Abellio had the experience of OV-Fiets to draw upon.

The Netherlands are very different to the UK.

 

[BestWestern]

Surely

It's £10 per year for the subscription, and then £3.80 per 24 hours rental... so on par with the cost of a PlusBus ticket in most cities.

Compare with Ofo, for example, which has no subscription and is 50p per 30 minutes, with a maximum daily cap of £5.

For the sake of a comparison, if you commuted by train every day, and rented a bike to commute less than 30 minutes to work, it'd cost £19 a week with Bike & Go (plus your annual subscription), or £5 a week with Ofo. B&G has the advantage of pretty much guaranteeing a bike will be there when you arrive, but they don't appear to be as well maintained. Here in Norwich there appears to be a team of about six or seven Ofo marshalls who are pulling in bikes for repairs and redistributing them as needed. The test will be whether they continue to be as well maintained after spending a winter out doors.

Surely the length of your commute is irrelevant if the thing has to be docked back at the station you rented it from? You'd have to hire it all day.

 

[Via Bank]

The Netherlands are very different to the UK.

This is true.

At least part of it must have something to do with convenience. OV-fiets is great for Dutch residents who have a personal chipkaart; you can register online and simply swipe and go. Having to register by post then queue at a ticket office is simply not good enough.

At the same British towns are considerably less attractive for cycling than towns in the Netherlands, thanks to dreadful street design and excess traffic.

If you turn up at a station in the Netherlands and need to get somewhere quickly and comfortably (eg a business meeting, lunch with the girls, your uncle’s house), OV-fiets is the logical choice.

If you turn up at the station in the UK, and need to get somewhere quickly and comfortably, you’re not going to queue for ten plus minutes at the ticket office, then throw yourself out onto streets where you have to contend with speeding cars and delivery lorries. You’re going to get a taxi - thereby adding to the traffic that discourages people from cycling.

We could have a system like the Netherlands. But that requires significantly more joined up and visionary transport policy; a real, concerted effort to provide convenience rather than just tick-box improvements; and for local councils’ highway departments to not worship private motorists and their wishes to drive where, when, and how they want.

None of these seem forthcoming in most of Britain.

 

[jopsuk]

all that's no excuse for Bike & Go being awkward to use. They could have installed something very similar to OV-Fiets as far as tech goes.

 

[Via Bank]

all that's no excuse for Bike & Go being awkward to use. They could have installed something very similar to OV-Fiets as far as tech goes.

Absolutely. It’s not like there’s a shortage of technologies available for bike rental services that don’t require queueing up AT A STAFFED TICKET OFFICE.

 

[HH]

Absolutely. It’s not like there’s a shortage of technologies available for bike rental services that don’t require queueing up AT A STAFFED TICKET OFFICE.

Agreed. It seems that they haven't trusted the great British public to look after the bikes in the same way they would in Holland. I wonder why?

 

[talltim]

Are any of the dockless bike schemes still going in the UK?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Are any of the dockless bike schemes still going in the UK?

A new electric bike based one seems to have just started in MK.

 

[Chonner]

Mobike and Ofo seem to be gradually disappearing from Oxford. Both have reduced the areas you can park them in since launch from almost city wide to some very specific zones in student areas and the city centre. And the number of Ofo's actually available on the App is probably around 10 across Oxford, with I suspect most of the others ending up in peoples back gardens or in the local rivers, while Mobike still has a good couple of hundred around, but less than the 2000+ at it's peak. Rumours are both of them have laid off most of their UK employees, with bankruptcy also potentially on the cards for the parent companies as the investment drys up.

Oxonbike, the County council ran scheme with docks was also wound up last year. The only one going steady seems to be local start up Ponybike, as they took a slow growth approach, with lots of people on the ground, but again they have reduced areas you can use them. You can also hire Bromptons from lockers at both Oxford Station and Didcot Parkway, but you have to returned them to the same place.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think these doing well in London is a bit of a "perfect storm" - if you want to cycle in your own town or city, you typically own your own bike (or more than one, e.g. an old boneshaker for leaving at the station and a nice road bike for fun), whereas someone travelling to that town or city is likely only visiting the centre (which other than London are generally compact and walkable) or going a fair way outside (so a bus or taxi rather than bike is needed). There is also no barrier to entry cost-wise, because bikes can be had for next to nothing or often even for free via Freecycle etc. London, unlike every other British city, has a huge centre which requires mechanical transport to get around in a reasonable time, but is small enough that a bicycle works for that purpose.

MK has had its own Santander scheme (which is dying out if it hasn't already gone completely) - but only once did I ever have cause to use it, and that was only due to a taxi being unavailable at the time one was required.

 

[Deafdoggie]

Last week the Chinese dockless bike sharing scheme Ofo launched here in Norwich. This is the third city outside of London to get Ofo, after Cambridge and Oxford. There are initially around 200 bikes for hire; just download the app, register a payment card and unlock it by activating bluetooth and scanning a QR code on your phone. 50p per half hour, maxiumum £5 per day.

I've been using the bikes quite a bit, in no small part because they're free for the first few weeks. Their geo-fence covers most of central Norwich, UEA and the inner suburbs. Like Boris bikes they're a bit heavy and have quite a short seat post, so encourage a more lazy style of riding.

Norwich City Council have been supportive, but it seems like Abellio are not so keen. I've noticed that bikes are never available on station property, and my own observations and word of mouth from others suggests that Ofo marshalls are responding to requests from Abellio by regularly moving them off station property to bike racks on adjacent 'public' property, or the Waterside Entertainment complex.

Is Abellio chewing away on some sour grapes, given the spectacular unpopularity of their subscription-based Bike & Go scheme (which was discussed last year in this closed thread)? I cycle a lot in Norwich, for leisure and for work, and the only Bike & Go bike I have ever seen in use was by an Abellio employee heading home from work.

My guess-and it is only a guess-that Abellio have an exclusivity clause with Bike and go, so can't permit anyone else to have bikes at the station, even if they wanted to.

My home city of Stoke on Trent, is far too hilly for cycling, the Virgin Trains Bromton cycle room is unused, several council inspired cycling initiatives failed due to noone (apart from serious cyclists) wanting to do all the hills. And serious cyclists have their own, serious, bikes!

I noticed at Wigan Wallgate in the summmer the Bike & Go shelter had gone, and there were only a few bits of bikes left locked to the remains of the shelter.

 

[Bletchleyite]

My home city of Stoke on Trent, is far too hilly for cycling, the Virgin Trains Bromton cycle room is unused, several council inspired cycling initiatives failed due to noone (apart from serious cyclists) wanting to do all the hills. And serious cyclists have their own, serious, bikes!

An electric scheme may well work better in Stoke, then? Stoke is an oddity as it doesn't have a single small city centre and even if it sort-of does (Hanley) the station isn't in it.