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Abellio Scotrail to Berwick?

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darloscott

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Have done a quick search and can't find any mention of this?
It appears Scotrail want to extend their Dunbar services to Berwick upon Tweed from May 2016.
These appear to be roughly 2 hourly during the day, although their application also seems to be wanting to take over the morning XC operated Dunbar-Glasgow service...

What's everyone's thoughts on this?
A stopping service right down the ECML between Edinburgh & Newcastle / York would be a great aspiration in a few years if capacity could be found!
 
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Blindtraveler

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An ECML Scotland Newcastle stopper would be a good idea. No need for more than that as theres already plenty of trains going south from there. Berwick on tweed is a good start for sure and if they want XCs Dunbar Glasgow I cant see this being a big issue iether.
 

backontrack

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The stoppers could call at East Linton, Reston, (possibly) Belford and Chathill.
 

Altnabreac

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Have done a quick search and can't find any mention of this?
It appears Scotrail want to extend their Dunbar services to Berwick upon Tweed from May 2016.
These appear to be roughly 2 hourly during the day, although their application also seems to be wanting to take over the morning XC operated Dunbar-Glasgow service...

What's everyone's thoughts on this?
A stopping service right down the ECML between Edinburgh & Newcastle / York would be a great aspiration in a few years if capacity could be found!

This was a priced option in the Scotrail ITT back in 2014:

Transport Scotland - Scotrail ITT said:
5.1 Improved services between Edinburgh and Berwickupon-Tweed/Newcastle

Bidders are asked to find a solution to increase services between Edinburgh and Berwick-uponTweed, incorporating services to potential new stations at Reston and East Linton, by extending existing services between Edinburgh and Dunbar. Bidders may be informed by the recent appraisal carried out on behalf of SESTrans, available on the Data Site. There may be scope for these
services to extend further to Newcastle, through an agreement with the DfT and appropriate sponsored rail franchisees.

Bidders are required to include the following:
  • A full description of the 7-day timetable for the services affected;
  • A full description of rolling stock diagram changes; and
  • An explanation of the revenue and cost impacts of the proposals.

In addition, Bidders should outline how they will work with Network Rail, local support groups and any DfT sponsored rail franchises.

This is what was then included in the Franchise Agrement with Abellio:

Scotrail Franchise Agreement said:
Priced Option 1 - Improved Services between Edinburgh and Berwick-upon-Tweed/Newcastle

(a) Description, objective and specification

The Franchisee will maintain the current Passenger Service and overlay on it a two hourly off- peak daytime interval for the Dunbar service, extending it into the peak travel hours to provide additional capacity on the Berwick-Dunbar-Edinburgh axis. This will allow New Stations at East Linton and Reston to be served during the Peak as well as the Off-Peak when the current Passenger Service generally runs.

It will also provide connections at Berwick into Up and out of Down Cross-Country trains as well as some East Coast services. Trains would run across the bridge to Tweedmouth in order to turn back without causing congestion at Berwick- on-Tweed station. Owing to pathing constraints, it will not be possible to use the new service to create an even interval service at Dunbar, but it will allow for a service in each to be provided from Dunbar in combination with the existing trains that call there, running between Dunbar at Edinburgh.

Overall the new service will require one additional EMU diagram along and an increase in driver establishment of 12 drivers at Edinburgh along with relevant route learning costs.

References to Edinburgh are to Edinburgh Waverley station.

(b) Price for exercising the Priced Option
Please refer to the incremental price analysis contained in the Appendix to this Schedule.
(c ) Timescale for implementing Priced Option
Twelve months from exercise of option.
(d) Other effects on this Agreement None identified.
(e) Last date for exercising the Priced Option in order to maintain the price
detailed in (b) above.
1st December 2018

http://www.transportscotland.gov.uk...Redacted Franchise Agreement - CU version.pdf

The new stations at East Linton and Reston are not guarenteed funding but have to bid for cash from the Scottish Stations Fund. No word yet on which projects are being funded but you can see the joint East Lothian / Scottish Borders bid document here:
http://www.scotborders.gov.uk/download/downloads/id/7663/scottish_stations_fund_bid
 

Blindtraveler

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Should the services extend to Newcastle, is there the capacity at Central Station for an approx 2 hourly terminating EMU from the North? Asking as I genuinely am not well aquainted with opperations and available space at NCL.
 

swt_passenger

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Should the services extend to Newcastle, is there the capacity at Central Station for an approx 2 hourly terminating EMU from the North? Asking as I genuinely am not well aquainted with opperations and available space at NCL.

Should be OK, there's a reasonable length north facing bay platform 1 alongside the main down through platform 2. I think as always the problem is line capacity between Newcastle and Berwick.
 

Esker-pades

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I think another thing that could be done is to extend the Northern Chathill service up to Berwick. Then the 2 TOC's would meet at Berwick and there could be a 3rd platform split into 2 at Berwick (I seem to remember there's space for that). If a convenient interchange between ScotRail and Northern stoppers was worked out then it should be good.
 

jopsuk

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is there much of the line between Newcastle & Edinburgh with a line speed above 100mph?
 

hibtastic

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Wouldnt be a huge issue for this service though as 100 is the best youl get out of a 380.

The 380s wont be there for long - they are due to be replaced on the east coast by AT200s as far as I know.

Glad to see East Linton included, its about time they reopened the station there.
 
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Darandio

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don't think there's any over 100mph

Oh yes there is! :lol:

The majority of Berwick to Morpeth is 100-125, Morpeth to Heaton is nearly all 100+ as well. It's only really north of Berwick where 100+ running becomes more limited, but even then there are plenty of stretches between 100-125.
 
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route:oxford

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Should be OK, there's a reasonable length north facing bay platform 1 alongside the main down through platform 2. I think as always the problem is line capacity between Newcastle and Berwick.

Time to sort out the Morpeth Curve with a bypass?

Stoppers via Morpeth and expresses via bypass should help a little.
 

Esker-pades

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aside from the fact that there are only 2 northern stoppers per day

Should have guessed this would come up.
My proposal (however hypothetical) would be that Northern extended all their services that go north of Newcastle up to Berwick, meaning they would skip various stations on the way.

However, with the stock only being pacers, ScotRail taking all of it over up to Newcastle would be the best option.
 

Mag_seven

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Slightly off-topic, but does anyone remember the Carlisle-Hexham-Newcastle-Berwick-Edinburgh loco hauled "local" service that ran in the early eighties?
 

Stats

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Should have guessed this would come up.
My proposal (however hypothetical) would be that Northern extended all their services that go north of Newcastle up to Berwick, meaning they would skip various stations on the way.

However, with the stock only being pacers, ScotRail taking all of it over up to Newcastle would be the best option.

The aspiration is to extend the TPE service north, not Northern. The problem at the moment is Network Rail believe that one inter-urban/non-London LDHS path north of Newcastle is the correct use of available capacity, and XC have that.
 

najaB

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The problem at the moment is Network Rail believe that one inter-urban/non-London LDHS path north of Newcastle is the correct use of available capacity, and XC have that.
And as annoying as XC can be, taking the path away from them would be a mistake.
 

Class 170101

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And as annoying as XC can be, taking the path away from them would be a mistake.

On Sundays there are currently four Edinburgh to Newcastle (and beyond) paths in some hours plus a local train to North Berwick.
 

glbotu

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I'm a bit at a loss to see what's eating up the paths between Newcastle and Berwick?

North of Newcastle, you get:

1tph Morpeth Stopper
1tph XC
3tp2h EC

Giving a maximum of 4tph. I believe each alternate hour has a freight path (so it's always 4tph). Is the signalling in the area so spaced out that they can't handle 5tph?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
On Sundays there are currently four Edinburgh to Newcastle (and beyond) paths in some hours plus a local train to North Berwick.

However, in those hours, the extra Intercity train takes up the path of the Morpeth stopper.
 

Stats

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I'm a bit at a loss to see what's eating up the paths between Newcastle and Berwick?

North of Newcastle, you get:

1tph Morpeth Stopper
1tph XC
3tp2h EC

Giving a maximum of 4tph. I believe each alternate hour has a freight path (so it's always 4tph). Is the signalling in the area so spaced out that they can't handle 5tph?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


However, in those hours, the extra Intercity train takes up the path of the Morpeth stopper.
The capacity issues are mostly between Berwick and Edinburgh. The issues between Berwick and Newcastle are mostly to do with speed differentials of freight and local services compared with intercity services and calling patterns. I would have thought you could introduce a service from Berwick stopping at Alnmouth, Morpeth and Cramlington, but it may need to stop in a freight loop to allow an intercity service to overtake. This presents problems if one service is late.

Between Berwick and Edinburgh, Network Rail describes the capacity constraints in a letter to the ORR for the ECML track applications:

http://orr.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0010/17974/east-coast-letter-20-05-15.pdf

Portobello Junction: The slow speed layout currently has 4tph leaving/joining the
ECML from Tweedbank

• Craigentinny Depot/Junction and Edinburgh Waverley platform capacity: the slow
speed junction layout for trains leaving/joining the ECML has an impact on ECML
capacity and platform capacity at Edinburgh Waverley. To enable an empty
coaching stock move to enter/exit Craigentinny Depot, there must be both capacity
on the ECML and at Edinburgh Waverley station, leading to unnecessarily long stock
layovers in long platforms especially at the start of traffic and towards the end of
traffic.

• Abbeyhill Junction/Edinburgh Waverley East End

• The power supply capacity between Newcastle and Edinburgh

Investment will be required to ease the above capacity constraints.

We also should consider future potential constraints, such as the future Electric Multiple Unit
(EMU) depot proposed at Millerhill.
 

Class 170101

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However, in those hours, the extra Intercity train takes up the path of the Morpeth stopper.

Which doesn't run on Sundays.

However the 13:00 has a different pattern with departures at 13:00, 13:06, 13:30 and 13:55 all to Newcastle (and beyond)

as where as the 12:00 hour has

12:00, 12:06, 12:20, 12:30 all to Newcastle (and beyond).

There must be a slot available at either:20 or :55 in all (Sunday) hours as these slots are not used in the same or indeed all hours.
 
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Time to sort out the Morpeth Curve with a bypass?

Stoppers via Morpeth and expresses via bypass should help a little.

Would it not be better to do some transport planning for Northumberland, rather than treat our rail network as someone's private trainset?

Bypassing Morpeth curve so people from outside Northumberland can get over Northumberland more quickly is the kind of selfish thinking that gives us HS2 for the benefit of Londoners but no trains at all for the largest towns in Northumberland.

If there's spare investment capacity a new station at Cramlington, as mooted since the 70s would help if it featured a three road layout so fast trains could pass through unhindered by stationary trains.

If there's spare investment capacity sorting out Benton Junction so that trains from the AB&T can join the national network or move freely onto (and off) the old Tyneside network would help. A Morpeth bypass would be a very low priority on my list of improvements, after (for instance) electrifying Tyne Valley and the AB&T so that you could run a modern, efficient Haltwhistle to Ashington service, or re-nstating heavy rail through South Gosforth to the airport.

What do I know though? I only live here.
 
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