Abellio wins West Midlands franchise

[HLE]

The slows are max 100mph.

Could be wrong - but I'm pretty sure the line speed on the slows is 110 in places on the Trent Valley.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Could be wrong - but I'm pretty sure the line speed on the slows is 110 in places on the Trent Valley.

Isn't it also 125 in some places?

Edit - Having checked the Sectional Appendix online, there is quite a lot of 110 on the Slows, with 125 under EPS .

 

[Bletchleyite]

Could be wrong - but I'm pretty sure the line speed on the slows is 110 in places on the Trent Valley.

Trains intended for Tring locals and MKC semifasts won't be spending much time there, though. And if they have two distinct fleets, I expect they won't be interworked in the way they are now, they will be very much separate.

 

[wipers]

I PERSONALLY would rather see Desiros stay, over the Aventras...

I think they work better, look more presentable, and operate to a much bigger market across Europe.

Once they're bedded in to full service, then it will become clear on the reliability point but they look awesome, both inside and out in my opinion. Most important of all tho', is that they're built in Derby, NOT Germany!...

 

[Lrd]

Most important of all tho', is that they're built in Derby, NOT Germany!...

By a Canadian company

 

[pemma]

By a Canadian company

A German subsidiary of a Canadian company.

A contract award to Bombardier does not guarantee the work will be done in Derby, it could end up being done in Belgium.

 

[wipers]

By a Canadian company

I don’t think that the parent company’s nationality really matters in this case - they are clearly totally committed to the UK, with the AVENTRA being designed in the UK, for the UK, and built here.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Once they're bedded in to full service, then it will become clear on the reliability point but they look awesome, both inside and out in my opinion. Most important of all tho', is that they're built in Derby, NOT Germany!...

I'd be happy with 350s all staying if the /2s were reseated to 2+2 and the First Class in all units converted to 2+1 (at which point I'd start using it; I refuse to pay extra for 1st that is more cramped than the majority of Standard due to the seats used).

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I don’t think that the parent company’s nationality really matters in this case - they are clearly totally committed to the UK, with the AVENTRA being designed in the UK, for the UK, and built here.

With Swedish electrics and German bogies.

 

[pemma]

I don’t think that the parent company’s nationality really matters in this case - they are clearly totally committed to the UK, with the AVENTRA being designed in the UK, for the UK, and built here.

With Swedish electrics and German bogies.

As with any multi-national it is rare that they will ever produce a product which is 100% designed and built in the same country. I have a Panasonic hard disc recorder which says 'Designed in Germany and assembled in Slovakia" but then on the remote control it says "Made in China." I also remember taking apart an old Toshiba TV prior to disposal and despite it saying assembled in the UK I noticed the tube (the main of the TV) had Philips branding on it and said it was manufactured somewhere abroad (I forget where.)

With the original Virgin Pendolinos built in the UK, the team included some Italian engineers who had experience of building tilting trains, which the British engineers did not. Similarly Siemens have recruited British engineers to work on projects in Germany.

 

[47802]

With Swedish electrics and German bogies.

Still Derby design and build is still a significant contribution to the UK I doubt Hitachi UK plant and any proposed CAF UK plant will be better in that respect.

Comments about the top speed of Aventra I was under the impression that it had been designed to run up 125 mph if required.

The speculation over manufacturers particularly with regard to the EMU's seems fairly pointless to me as all the main manufacturers are likely to be able to supply suitable EMU's but clearly cost, delivery timescale, etc will play a part we also don't know how much Abellio want and are willing to split the order between manufacturers, but because of the DMU element it seems to me CAF maybe in the driving seat to give a good deal on the whole order, but then Abellio may want to split the order anyway.

 

[wipers]

Completely agree, and the Bombardier bogies that are built in Siegen, Germany have UK-manufactured components in them as an example.

If you're the industry-leader in anything, OEM's will always seek you out, regardless of location. Look at Brecknell Willis in Pantographs for instance, or in another industry entirely, Martin-Baker who basically own the global ejector seat market from their base in Denham, Middlesex.

 

[ainsworth74]

I'm sure that the last time this came up it transpired that Siemens employed considerably more people in the UK than Bombardier did. They just didn't assemble the train's here...

 

[Geezertronic]

With the original Virgin Pendolinos built in the UK, the team included some Italian engineers who had experience of building tilting trains, which the British engineers did not. Similarly Siemens have recruited British engineers to work on projects in Germany.

The 390s were assembled in the UK, not built in the UK? I know it's pedantic but the bits were built elsewhere then shipped into the UK to be assembled were they not?

 

[wipers]

The 390s were assembled in the UK, not built in the UK? I know it's pedantic but the bits were built elsewhere then shipped into the UK to be assembled were they not?

I'm not sure in the case of the 390's but that's still the big difference between assembly and manufacture for me - the body shell. Hitachi bring them in from Kasado, so that's definitely assembly in the UK, whereas Bombardier build them, hence I see Derby as manufacture.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yet the bodyshell is just one component. Odd how we see it as the one that decides origin.

 

[wipers]

Yet the bodyshell is just one component. Odd how we see it as the one that decides origin.

Very true. That's only my view, which is based on the fact that it's the extruded aluminium and subsequent welding techniques (i.e. friction stir welding in Hitachi's case) that really require significant capex. I am assuming it's the highest-cost assembly overall but don't know that for sure.

Interesting point tho' as I see Rolls-Royce Motor Cars as a British product but then the body shells for those come from Germany... :?

 

[Emblematic]

Yet the bodyshell is just one component. Odd how we see it as the one that decides origin.

We're selective on whether it's seen that way - particularly as it's a job that is often subcontracted out, sometimes to competitors. Brush built the class 60 and 92 locomotives, but they subcontracted out the bodyshells. Bombardier are building the latest ICE bodyshells for Siemens (from bought-in panels.) If the loco or train leaves your factory in a finished state, you are credited as the builder, even if the bulk of the work took place elsewhere.

 

[wipers]

We're selective on whether it's seen that way - particularly as it's a job that is often subcontracted out, sometimes to competitors. Brush built the class 60 and 92 locomotives, but they subcontracted out the bodyshells. Bombardier are building the latest ICE bodyshells for Siemens (from bought-in panels.) If the loco or train leaves your factory in a finished state, you are credited as the builder, even if the bulk of the work took place elsewhere.

I'll never look at a Class 60 or 92 in the same light again...

 

[Bevan Price]

Which - if any stations would be unsuitable for 6 coach Class 323 formations if they were to be used on Coventry / Birmingham / Wolverhamton / Stoke / Crewe locals, and/or Birmingham / Walsall / Rugeley services ?? Could 323s be fitted with selective door opening to solve any "difficult" stations ?

 

[ChrisHogan]

Which - if any stations would be unsuitable for 6 coach Class 323 formations if they were to be used on Coventry / Birmingham / Wolverhamton / Stoke / Crewe locals, and/or Birmingham / Walsall / Rugeley services ?? Could 323s be fitted with selective door opening to solve any "difficult" stations ?

Wolves platform 5 for a start. (Bay used by the Bham-Wolves stopping service) Just takes a four car 350. Most of the stations north of Walsall on the line to Rugeley are about 70 metres long but they might be getting extended under electrification. No doubt several others.

 

[DJames]

Wolves platform 5 for a start. (Bay used by the Bham-Wolves stopping service) Just takes a four car 350. Most of the stations north of Walsall on the line to Rugeley are about 70 metres long but they might be getting extended under electrification. No doubt several others.

Tipton only takes a 4 car too if I remember correctly, but it looks like there's enough space to extend it towards Coseley to support six cars. There's a signal at the end of the platforms though, which would have to be moved.

 

[the sniper]

Which - if any stations would be unsuitable for 6 coach Class 323 formations if they were to be used on Coventry / Birmingham / Wolverhamton / Stoke / Crewe locals, and/or Birmingham / Walsall / Rugeley services ??

Most of them! Even on the BHM to COV corridor, which is the only route where the majority of stations could accommodate 6 323 carriages, Stechford is only doable on the Up and Adderley Park is only just over 80m either way.

Could 323s be fitted with selective door opening to solve any "difficult" stations ?

While presumably not completely infeasible, I imagine it'd be a major task/expense unlikely to be carried out on such old stock, particularly when it's not really necessary.

The number of stations that'd require 3 carriages worth of passengers to exit through one set of doors at the front of the unit would be a nightmare dwell time wise and largely unworkable in reality.

 

[Japan0913]

Hello.
WM purchased a new train announcement when do you think?

1. Siemens, Alstom, one of the conclusions of Bombardier
2. The Hitachi Class 385 tests in Germany

 

[pemma]

Bombardier have done their usual press release stating they hope to get some work as a contract award is about to made

Rail industry sources claim that Derby train-maker Bombardier could be “close to winning” a further large order for new trains - but will have to beat off competition from other manufacturers to win the deal.

Last month, the Department for Transport (DfT) awarded the contract to run the new West Midlands rail franchise to a consortium made up of Dutch national operator Abellio with the East Japan Railway Company and Mitsui and Co. Ltd.

The consortium, which will operate the franchise as West Midlands Trains, will take over services previously run by London Midland, owned by Anglo-French consortium Govia.

It is understood that the consortium has now signed a contract with the DfT, allowing the new franchise to begin operating before the end of the year.

When it was announced that West Midlands Trains had been awarded the contract, the firm said that it promised to invest almost £1 billion in the business including the acquisition of around 400 new carriages by 2021.

And at the time, industry sources told the Derby Telegraph that Bombardier hoped to build “some of them”, with the firm most likely bidding to supply electric trains.

Now, those sources believe the Litchurch Lane business could soon hear whether it has been successful - and are predicting that it could be good news for the Derby firm.

http://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/news/business/derby-company-employs-1600-people-551257 (Note: I do not recommend clicking on that link. It automatically starts playing a video even if you click the 'cancel loading' link - visits to websites like this should be avoided.)

 

[Mordac]

It's amazing how little in the way of announcements there's been for this award. I'm still not clear at all on what's going to happen, not only with rolling stock, but with things like the Coventry to Nuneaton and to Leamington services...

 

[causton]

It's amazing how little in the way of announcements there's been for this award. I'm still not clear at all on what's going to happen, not only with rolling stock, but with things like the Coventry to Nuneaton and to Leamington services...

It is the same on all fronts, internal and external. Apparently the 'standstill' period was extended. As far as I can tell no staff know any more than what has been made public

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

It's amazing how little in the way of announcements there's been for this award. I'm still not clear at all on what's going to happen, not only with rolling stock, but with things like the Coventry to Nuneaton and to Leamington services...

Talking of announcements, I hope they cut Julie Berry!

 

[the sniper]

It's amazing how little in the way of announcements there's been for this award. I'm still not clear at all on what's going to happen, not only with rolling stock, but with things like the Coventry to Nuneaton and to Leamington services...

It is the same on all fronts, internal and external. Apparently the 'standstill' period was extended. As far as I can tell no staff know any more than what has been made public

The silence is deafening...

 

[HLE]

It's amazing how little in the way of announcements there's been for this award. I'm still not clear at all on what's going to happen, not only with rolling stock, but with things like the Coventry to Nuneaton and to Leamington services...

172’s from LO and the Nun-Cov extended to 2tph once the bay is done.

Leamington to Coventry will remain 1 tph and will also be a 172. As it stand there will be no direct nun-leam services.