Abellio wins West Midlands franchise

[pemma]

LM presently have (from Wiki) 6960m of Desiro most of which operate to/from London, they will have 5400m of new units. This being the case, it's inconceivable that the London services will be exclusively new stock - they would never have bid a capacity reduction.

You keep missing the same thing. London services get 225 new carriages as well as refurbished carriages (class 350s) based on the DfT announcement.

 

[pemma]

So what will use platform 4C at New Street? A five car Liverpool will not fit and a four car Salop may not either.

Is 4C part of a long platform or is it a short separate platform near platform 4? If it's the former maybe 4C will disappear over time. I recall something similar being said about Newcastle with TPE replacing 3 car trains with 5 car trains.

 

[Old Hill Bank]

Is 4C part of a long platform or is it a short separate platform near platform 4? If it's the former maybe 4C will disappear over time. I recall something similar being said about Newcastle with TPE replacing 3 car trains with 5 car trains.

It's a bay that was built as an extension of No1 engine siding to "Increase Capacity", platform 5 (formally the longest at the station) was significantly reduced in length to accommodate it.

 

[Domh245]

TPE successfully did when the New Franchise and thus livery took over last year

Only for the time being. The lighting is not currently up to spec, according to the paperwork, but they are having work done to allow them to ditch the yellow, to match the rest of their new fleet which will have black fronts

 

[Bletchleyite]

So what will use platform 4C at New Street? A five car Liverpool will not fit and a four car Salop may not either.

Possibly nothing.

 

[Quakkerillo]

Does a 4-car 158 fit in there? If so, it may be used for some terminating ATW services from Shrewsbury (timetabled, and in case of being late).

 

[Bletchleyite]

Does a 4-car 158 fit in there? If so, it may be used for some terminating ATW services from Shrewsbury (timetabled, and in case of being late).

If it does, I suppose a path from New St to Intl could be freed up by changing those to terminate at New St instead.

 

[Old Hill Bank]

Does a 4-car 158 fit in there? If so, it may be used for some terminating ATW services from Shrewsbury (timetabled, and in case of being late).

Like 4x170, 4x158 is 23 metre stock and the proposed new WMT DMUs are no shorter. New Street can ill afford to waste a platform.

 

[DJames]

So what will use platform 4C at New Street? A five car Liverpool will not fit and a four car Salop may not either.

I've seen it used by 170s to Shrewsbury and the 323 stopper to Wolverhampton also used it on Thursday evening. Not sure how that'd fit into the future use though with 170s going and probably the 323s too.

 

[sd0733]

4 car 170s often use 4c and even 4-car Voyagers from time to time so presumably unless Salop line trains exceed 4 cars then 4c will be the platform for Birmingham-Shrewsbury trains. Depending how the Rugeleys are pathed they could potentially use it to if they don't go in the current circular path and use the North end in both directions.

 

[ChrisHogan]

Possibly nothing.

This, of course, is the complete irony of Abellio's plans. Cross-linking trains at NS to reduce platform occupation and introducing the performance disbenefits of linked services leading to a platform (4C) potentially becoming redundant. If the Shrewsburys also go through to Camp Hill and Kings Norton to meet the Mayor's election commitment for the service to Moseley, then they can't use 4C either.

 

[Old Hill Bank]

4 car 170s often use 4c and even 4-car Voyagers from time to time so presumably unless Salop line trains exceed 4 cars then 4c will be the platform for Birmingham-Shrewsbury trains. Depending how the Rugeleys are pathed they could potentially use it to if they don't go in the current circular path and use the North end in both directions.

Thanks for that, never seen 4x23m in 4C must be tight with a slow and very careful stop.

 

[Old Hill Bank]

This, of course, is the complete irony of Abellio's plans. Cross-linking trains at NS to reduce platform occupation and introducing the performance disbenefits of linked services leading to a platform (4C) potentially becoming redundant. If the Shrewsburys also go through to Camp Hill and Kings Norton to meet the Mayor's election commitment for the service to Moseley, then they can't use 4C either.

Do you honestly think that Moseley will happen without Camp Hill Cords and work at Kings Norton. Pathing the stuff through Proof House has to be a non runner.

 

[tomuk]

Thanks for that, never seen 4x23m in 4C must be tight with a slow and very careful stop.

The Sectional Appendix states that 4c is 98m. The Shrewsburys are regularly 4 car 170s.

 

[ChrisHogan]

Do you honestly think that Moseley will happen without Camp Hill Chords and work at Kings Norton. Pathing the stuff through Proof House has to be a non runner.

No I don't think it will work but see the earlier posting by The Planner. Those of us with long memories will go back to about 1988 when the LMR stuffed so many trains into NS that there was gridlock. I hope Abellio and Network Rail aren't about to make the same mistake again.

 

[The Planner]

You can get them to Kings Norton without any new infrastructure, whether you would want to is a different question. You have to get them in and out between Cross City services, so you can guarentee you will wait outside and it will be as tight as hell with a 5 minute turnround.

ATW won't go in 4c, the International run works too well.

 

[Old Hill Bank]

No I don't think it will work but see the earlier posting by The Planner. Those of us with long memories will go back to about 1988 when the LMR stuffed so many trains into NS that there was gridlock. I hope Abellio and Network Rail aren't about to make the same mistake again.

I worked in and around New Street from the mid 70s as a mtce and then project design engineer dealing with the staff who had to run the place. Proof House re-model helped but its still stuffed full. Getting more throughput aint going to happen.

 

[Old Hill Bank]

You can get them to Kings Norton without any new infrastructure, whether you would want to is a different question. You have to get them in and out between Cross City services, so you can guarentee you will wait outside and it will be as tight as hell with a 5 minute turnround.

ATW won't go in 4c, the International run works too well.

And long may it continue but in fairness it does have to sit at New Street a while in both directions.

 

[The Planner]

Better than the 50 minute turnround it otherwise needs!

 

[Old Hill Bank]

Better than the 50 minute turnround it otherwise needs!

Agreed, shame is some people on this site seem to think that some Manchester-Brum EMU job could run as well with turnback. I despair!

 

[pt_mad]

So does anyone know when LM will begin de-branding trains and stations?

Do London Midland logos have to be removed from station signs and trains before 10th December. Not a great deal of time left.

 

[XCTurbostar]

So does anyone know when LM will begin de-branding trains and stations?

Do London Midland logos have to be removed from station signs and trains before 10th December. Not a great deal of time left.

I would expect de-branding to start within the next few weeks and will be completed as the units get back to depot, I’d imagine they’d do it then.

 

[pt_mad]

I would expect de-branding to start within the next few weeks and will be completed as the units get back to depot, I’d imagine they’d do it then.

What with the new West Midlands Trains / London Northwestern corporate colours being fairly similar to LM, are we to expect that station signs - i.e. the ones along the platforms with the station name on, (eg. 'Watford Junction') - could just have a London Northwestern sticker/decal placed over the top of the current 'London Midland'?

 

[Bletchleyite]

What with the new West Midlands Trains / London Northwestern corporate colours being fairly similar to LM, are we to expect that station signs - i.e. the ones along the platforms with the station name on, (eg. 'Watford Junction') - could just have a London Northwestern sticker/decal placed over the top of the current 'London Midland'?

Or a bit of sellotape, knowing TOCs so far.

 

[XCTurbostar]

Or a bit of sellotape, knowing TOCs so far.

It will probably come down to a matter of priory. E.g. places where the old logos are viewed by the public most will be done first, other parts will be done later. An example of this is old oak common depot which, until about a week before the open day, still had First Great Western on the signs!

 

[Bletchleyite]

FGW is a bit different as First own the brand and therefore are quite at liberty to carry on using it as long as they wish.

SWT was similarly different as the brand is owned by DfT and they have given permission for it to be phased out rather than the silly sellotape game.

 

[DenmarkRail]

Earlier today, I contatced Abellio, and asked about their plans on stations such as Wedgewood, and Barlestone... Their wiki pages said they could be reopened in the next franchise, so I wanted that to be clarified, so the wikipedia article can be ammended, to avoid confusion.

 

[pemma]

Earlier today, I contatced Abellio, and asked about their plans on stations such as Wedgewood, and Barlestone... Their wiki pages said they could be reopened in the next franchise, so I wanted that to be clarified, so the wikipedia article can be ammended, to avoid confusion.

An email from Abellio won't be much use for that purpose. If they email you to say they are looking in to reopening them and you edit the Wikipedia pages to say that, then someone else could remove the claims as you'll be unable to produce a verifiable reference for them.

 

[DenmarkRail]

An email from Abellio won't be much use for that purpose. If they email you to say they are looking in to reopening them and you edit the Wikipedia pages to say that, then someone else could remove the claims as you'll be unable to produce a verifiable reference for them.

Would usually add a picture of the email, and as a caption write “Before taking over the franchise, Abellio suggested they were looking into reopening the station”

 

[pemma]

Would usually add a picture of the email, and as a caption write “Before taking over the franchise, Abellio suggested they were looking into reopening the station”

An image of an email isn't really a good reference. I could create what looks like an image of an Abellio branded email and put whatever content I want in it.