Aberdeen - Grimsby (& Sleeper)

[reb0118]

As some off you will already know there was severe disruption in the Kirkcaldy area due to signalling problems. One reaction to this was passengers missing connections due to services that were meant to start at Inverurie/Dyce being started from Aberdeen.

Now the sleeper from Aberdeen was very lightly loaded for a Friday so there was no problem in accommodating these extra passengers, most were for Lancashire, North Wales, & the English Midlands. One however was for Grimsby in Lincolnshire - I allowed him to travel due to the fact that he had missed his last daytime connection.

My questions (academic) are these:-

1) Under normal circumstances is an Aberdeen - Grimsby ticket valid via Preston &/or Crewe?

2) Does holding a "sleeper booking" relax the routing guide for this journey or any others for that matter? &

3) If not what would be the correct fare (or fares) to charge for this journey?

 

[bb21]

As some off you will already know there was severe disruption in the Kirkcaldy area due to signalling problems. One reaction to this was passengers missing connections due to services that were meant to start at Inverurie/Dyce being started from Aberdeen.

Now the sleeper from Aberdeen was very lightly loaded for a Friday so there was no problem in accommodating these extra passengers, most were for Lancashire, North Wales, & the English Midlands. One however was for Grimsby in Lincolnshire - I allowed him to travel due to the fact that he had missed his last daytime connection.

My questions (academic) are these:-

1) Under normal circumstances is an Aberdeen - Grimsby ticket valid via Preston &/or Crewe?

No.

Valid Routes from Aberdeen [ABD] to Grimsby Town [GMB]:

1. Direct trains from Aberdeen to Grimsby Town
   
2. Shortest Route: 406.5 miles
   • Aberdeen
   • Dundee
   • Edinburgh
   • Musselburgh
   • Dunbar
   • Berwick-upon-Tweed
   • Alnmouth
   • Morpeth
   • Chester-le-Street
   • Durham
   • Darlington
   • Northallerton
   • Thirsk
   • York
   • Doncaster
   • Kirk Sandall
   • Hatfield & Stainforth
   • Thorne South
   • Crowle
   • Althorpe
   • Scunthorpe
   • Barnetby
   • Habrough
   • Grimsby Town
3. Mapped Routes:
   Aberdeen - Barnetby:
   • ER
   • ER + PS
   • ER + WK

2) Does holding a "sleeper booking" relax the routing guide for this journey or any others for that matter? &

Not that I'm aware of.

There are certain other journeys that a relaxation of the rules may apply, such as those detailed in Easement 20003 and Easement 20004:

Passengers for Aviemore and Carrbridge are permitted to alight from the sleeper at Inverness and double back to their destination in the morning.

Passengers for Exeter, Newton Abbot and Totnes are permitted to alight from the sleeper at Plymouth and double back to their destination in the morning.

3) If not what would be the correct fare (or fares) to charge for this journey?

I think this would come under the provision of NRCoC Condition 43 which means that I believe you should not really be charging them.

43. Help from Train Companies if you are stranded
If disruption caused by circumstances within the control of a Train Company or a Rail
Service Company leaves you stranded before you have reached your destination and the
Train Company whose trains you are entitled to use is unable to get you to that destination
by other means, any Train Company which is in a position to help will, if it reasonably can,
either arrange to get you to that destination, or provide overnight accommodation for you.

 

[reb0118]

I think this would come under the provision of NRCoC Condition 43 which means that I believe you should not really be charging them.

No, I would not be charging them in the above instance. I was just curious as to the right fare to charge if someone wished to make this journey in the future (when there is no disruption).

 

[paul1609]

As some off you will already know there was severe disruption in the Kirkcaldy area due to signalling problems. One reaction to this was passengers missing connections due to services that were meant to start at Inverurie/Dyce being started from Aberdeen.

Now the sleeper from Aberdeen was very lightly loaded for a Friday so there was no problem in accommodating these extra passengers, most were for Lancashire, North Wales, & the English Midlands. One however was for Grimsby in Lincolnshire - I allowed him to travel due to the fact that he had missed his last daytime connection.

My questions (academic) are these:-

1) Under normal circumstances is an Aberdeen - Grimsby ticket valid via Preston &/or Crewe?

2) Does holding a "sleeper booking" relax the routing guide for this journey or any others for that matter? &

3) If not what would be the correct fare (or fares) to charge for this journey?

I do wonder if the Highland sleeper is in fact dying a slow death.
Ive been on it twice northbound on a friday night this year. on one occasion there were less than 30 passengers on departing London in all 3 portions. On the other occasion the seating seemed about half full but the berths were very lightly loaded.
Ive not used it southbound since the WCML modernisation meant that you could reach the south coast using the mid day train from Fort William.

Have I just been unlucky?

 

[34D]

One however was for Grimsby in Lincolnshire - I allowed him to travel due to the fact that he had missed his last daytime connection.

Did he get off at preston (to then get the first preston-york northern) or go to Euston to come north on EC?

In times of disruption, a seat for no extra cost would seem reasonable, but I'd be expecting to pay the normal berth supplement for a bed.

I do wonder if the Highland sleeper is in fact dying a slow death.
Ive been on it twice northbound on a friday night this year. on one occasion there were less than 30 passengers on departing London in all 3 portions. On the other occasion the seating seemed about half full but the berths were very lightly loaded.
Ive not used it southbound since the WCML modernisation meant that you could reach the south coast using the mid day train from Fort William.

Have I just been unlucky?

I can speak from a recent trip on the night riviera, where there was no empty berths at all.

 

[reb0118]

I do wonder if the Highland sleeper is in fact dying a slow death.

Have I just been unlucky?

In my experience of the Aberdeen portion numbers have been rising slowly over all. However individual loadings on any particular day can vary wildly. Yesterday was very quiet but I was told Thursday was very busy as people were travelling home/away for the Bank Holiday weekend.

Lots of factors play their part: weather; economic climate; season; sporting events; failure of other transport operations (eg Ash Cloud); &c.........

Luck depends on whether you like a quiet train? However I take your point that if a train is consistently quiet then, and if there are no operational reasons to run it, it may disappear.

Did he get off at preston (to then get the first preston-york northern) or go to Euston to come north on EC ?

I suggested Preston. He preferred Crewe as he stated that he would arrive at Grimsby at the same time but would have less time hanging about stations at silly o' clock in the morning.

 

[dvboy]

He clearly knew what he was doing then
Surely if someone turned up wanting to do this and it didn't come under condition 43, it would be two separate tickets