About CityNightLine

Stephen Lee

Member
Joined
7 Jul 2019
Messages
458
The article is in Japanese so I have to translate it into English:
● route planning

The departure and arrival stations and their routes in Germany, Austria and Switzerland were planned to be the routes connecting the three cities of Koeln, Wien and Zuerich and two of those departure and arrival stations.
In addition, the expansion of routes was planned. Shown below,

As a confirmed route
Zuerich --Wien
(Dortmund-) Koeln --Wien
Hamburg --Bremen --Zuerich

In addition, the originally planned route expansion plan after the start of business was as follows.
Switzerland-Rome / Southern Italy
Switzerland-Barcelona
Switzerland-Berlin
Switzerland-Benelux / London
Source: http://www.rig-bahn.jp/db-page/j-cnl1.htm
I found out that DACH Hotelzug AG i.e. CityNightLine formerly planned to expand service to Rome / Southern Italy, Barcelona, Benelux and even to London but how come it is not materialised? I hope Nightjet's expansion can surely make up this loss.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

StephenHunter

Established Member
Joined
22 Jul 2017
Messages
1,247
Location
London
London runs into problems with border controls; not insurmountable ones with the right political will. Also, rolling stock; while you can fit a Nightjet rake on HS1, you'd need a Class 92 or something to haul it and they're busy on freight.

Interestingly, the planned Midnight Trains operation, which is backed by a French tech billionaire among others, actually wants to run a service to Edinburgh!

DB stopped running night trains in 2016.

ÖBB launched Nightjet in December 2016, immediately after the last City Night Line trains stopped running.
NJ took over CNL's rolling stock.
 

30907

Veteran Member
Joined
30 Sep 2012
Messages
12,163
Location
Airedale
The article is in Japanese so I have to translate it into English:

Source: http://www.rig-bahn.jp/db-page/j-cnl1.htm
I found out that DACH Hotelzug AG i.e. CityNightLine formerly planned to expand service to Rome / Southern Italy, Barcelona, Benelux and even to London but how come it is not materialised? I hope Nightjet's expansion can surely make up this loss.
When CNL was set up there were certainly sleeper services to the Netherlands and Rome from D/A/CH and the Nightstar sleepers through the Channel Tunnel were at an advanced planning stage.
Zurich-Barcelona would have been a real possibility then and is quite likely to happen in this decade.
Southern Italy (depending exactly where, I wonder if the Adriatic Coast eg Rimini was actually meant?) was probably a non-starter because of journey time, and I have not seen it in current planning.
And then came low-cost airlines.... :(
 

Gloster

Established Member
Joined
4 Sep 2020
Messages
2,681
Location
Up the creek
Even ignoring the technical problems, I would doubt if any business would take the commercial risk of starting a service to London in the foreseeable future. The hostile attitude of the current government to Europe and the possibility that it might suddenly bring in restrictions affecting the service for purely political reasons would make the whole thing very chancy. Maybe we will have to wait until Scotland has gone its own way and wants to be joined to other European capitals, but then it might be a Korridorzug with no public stops between Frethun and Reston.
 

XAM2175

Established Member
Joined
8 Jun 2016
Messages
1,506
Location
Glasgow
Also, rolling stock; while you can fit a Nightjet rake on HS1, you'd need a Class 92 or something to haul it and they're busy on freight.
Oh, I'm sure Siemens would happily build a fleet of Chunnel Vectrons for the right money :p

Maybe we will have to wait until Scotland has gone its own way and wants to be joined to other European capitals, but then it might be a Korridorzug with no public stops between Frethun and Reston.
With 125 mph stock the timings could actually almost work, hah.
 

30907

Veteran Member
Joined
30 Sep 2012
Messages
12,163
Location
Airedale
We managed to run the Night Ferry before the EEC even existed.
But nobody considered a train ferry a terrorist target then, and cross Channel migration was less of a political issue (and the sleepers couldn't have conveyed many migrants anyway).
 

Bald Rick

Veteran Member
Joined
28 Sep 2010
Messages
20,336
I would doubt if any business would take the commercial risk of starting a service to London in the foreseeable future.

There won’t be a commercial case for London - Europe sleepers, so It’s not a commercial risk, but commercial suicide!
 

StephenHunter

Established Member
Joined
22 Jul 2017
Messages
1,247
Location
London
London to Europe no. Edinburgh to Europe? Someone at Midnight Trains - several someones it seems - thinks it's a viable idea.
 

Bald Rick

Veteran Member
Joined
28 Sep 2010
Messages
20,336
Edinburgh to Europe? Someone at Midnight Trains - several someones it seems - thinks it's a viable idea.

Someone at Midnight Trains needs to do a little research into the commercial, technical, logistical and legal issues. It’s not viable and not going to happen.
 

StephenHunter

Established Member
Joined
22 Jul 2017
Messages
1,247
Location
London
Looking at their staff, someone possibly has. Also history is full of things that people said weren't viable.
 

Bald Rick

Veteran Member
Joined
28 Sep 2010
Messages
20,336
Looking at their staff, someone possibly has. Also history is full of things that people said weren't viable.

True. This isn’t viable though.

The London - Edinburgh sleeper service isn’t commercially viable (by a long way), Paris - Edinburgh has no chance.
 

StephenHunter

Established Member
Joined
22 Jul 2017
Messages
1,247
Location
London
Let's see how the German elections go, in particular. Strong chance of the Greens re-entering government.
 

TheEdge

Established Member
Joined
29 Nov 2012
Messages
3,852
Location
Norwich
Politics is also moving against low-cost airlines.

Coalition of national operators across the continent to create a full network of sleepers...

Or probably just OBB as they seem to be the only ones who really buy into sleepers.
 

Top