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AC electrics away from the wires

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Sunbird24

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Many years ago I saw some AC electric locos from the WCML running through Reading behind class 47s with the electric loco DiT. These were diversions via Banbury, and Didcot to Paddington due to a disruption on the WCML out of Euston. I manage to get the odd photographs but have not located them as yet, does anyone recall what year it may have been? I believe they were all 86s/87s.
 
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eastwestdivide

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How many is "many" years? There was an incident in December 1982 which saw diversions due to a derailment at Leighton Buzzard. I think some Birmingham trains went to Padd, and definitely some WCML trains went to St Pancras, but those I saw diverted into St P were without electrics.

My pic of West Coast Mk3s behind a Peak going round Wigston South Curve over at RMWeb here: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/65523-unusual-diesel-workings/?p=1650216
 

Beebman

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I can also recall some sort of incident in the 1980s which involved WCML trains diverted into Paddington but they definitely didn't include dragged AC locos. I recall arriving at Paddington during my morning commute and amongst the destinations on the departure board was Inverness(!) so The Clansman must have been one of the diverted trains. If it helps, I first started commuting into Paddington in the spring of 1984 and of course the departure indicator had to be electronic (i.e. not Solari) in order to be able to display the unusual destinations.

Moving back to the mid-1970s, I was on a bus on the A4 east of Reading close to the old Sutton Seeds grounds when I spotted a Class 305 EMU being dragged in the Up direction by (I think) a Class 47, presumably going a rather long way round from Wolverton to Ilford? The only other time up until now I've seen an AC electric at Reading was when a Eurostar set was parked to the west of the station one weekend in 1994, presumably on its way from Alstom in the Midlands to North Pole Depot.
 
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Sunbird24

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December 1982 sounds the right time frame, I'll check the pics around that time to see what I've got. If I find them I'll scan and post here. I saw the first one from the footbridge adjacent to the Waterloo lines just east of the station. At that time I was working at Suttons Seeds close to the line so saw a lot of what went past, though not with a camera most of the time. Definitely saw several electrics tucked inside.
 

Mag_seven

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Many years ago I saw some AC electric locos from the WCML running through Reading behind class 47s with the electric loco DiT. These were diversions via Banbury, and Didcot to Paddington due to a disruption on the WCML out of Euston. I manage to get the odd photographs but have not located them as yet, does anyone recall what year it may have been? I believe they were all 86s/87s.

I'm a follower of the BR AC Electrics and cannot recall any occasion when they were dragged into Paddington - that's not to say it didn't happen of course! The sooner you find and post those photos on here the better - will be really interested in seeing them.
 

Bald Rick

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There were definitely some diversions into St Pancras with the AC locos still attached; post BedPan wiring, but before 1992.
 

ChiefPlanner

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There were definitely some diversions into St Pancras with the AC locos still attached; post BedPan wiring, but before 1992.

There were even class 310 sets into the latter - dragged over the Bedford byway until someone high up stopped it (issues with triple valve operation when hauled by a 25 or a 47)
 

ChiefPlanner

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An AC loco made it to Llandudno Junction in a series of errors not that long ago , when there was a communication error at Crewe .....
 

zn1

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in the old days :
313s were dragged to horwich for attention.
310s went to selhurst for lockchanges
302s were sent to eastleigh for classified repairs
321425(i am sure that was her) went to Fratton to aircon fitment
 

Marklund

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There were definitely some diversions into St Pancras with the AC locos still attached; post BedPan wiring, but before 1992.

They detached the diesel at Bedford, and the electric took it in to St Pancras

[youtube]rT3Lo2n3SD4[/youtube]

[youtube]aaFYac9b-IM[/youtube]
 
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themiller

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In the early 1980s, I was on a train from Euston to Shrewsbury. Due to the heavy snow, the 86 wasn't taken off at Wolverhampton before the 47 was put on the front (presumably due to the need to clear snow from extra points). I stayed on the train to Oakengates where I detrained into two feet of snow on the platform.
 

Sunbird24

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[url]https://www.flickr.com/photos/56186958@N05/33722744971/in/datetaken*********[/url]
I found the picture and here it is. If you cannot see it I will figure out a way to post it where you can see it. At the moment I can only date it to about 1985. [url]https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10210986929767869&set=a.1208093281141.2032039.1192973669&type=3&theater[/url]
or here [url]https://www.flickr.com/photos/56186958@N05/33722744971/in/datetaken/[/url]
 
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Spartacus

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An AC loco made it to Llandudno Junction in a series of errors not that long ago , when there was a communication error at Crewe .....

I was just looking for how far that had made it! It was a class 90, 90039. I think at some point they'd been cleared to Chester, but no further.
 

eastwestdivide

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[url]https://www.flickr.com/photos/56186958@N05/33722744971/in/datetaken*********[/url]
I found the picture and here it is. If you cannot see it I will figure out a way to post it where you can see it. At the moment I can only date it to about 1985. [url]https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10210986929767869&set=a.1208093281141.2032039.1192973669&type=3&theater[/url]
or here [url]https://www.flickr.com/photos/56186958@N05/33722744971/in/datetaken/[/url][/QUOTE]

Good find. You've put c.1985. Coaches all blue-grey and the nearest still with an M prefix. It's only a small sample of coaches, but would you expect a few in executive livery and/or without prefixes by 1985? Could your photo be that same event that I photo'd in 1982?
 

Beebman

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[url]https://www.flickr.com/photos/56186958@N05/33722744971/in/datetaken*********[/url]
I found the picture and here it is. If you cannot see it I will figure out a way to post it where you can see it. At the moment I can only date it to about 1985. [url]https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10210986929767869&set=a.1208093281141.2032039.1192973669&type=3&theater[/url]
or here [url]https://www.flickr.com/photos/56186958@N05/33722744971/in/datetaken/[/url][/QUOTE]

Interesting photo! I think the incident which I'm thinking of which closed the WCML for some days was the collision between a Freightliner train and an EMU near Wembley Central on 11/10/1984:

[URL="http://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/docsummary.php?docID=818"]http://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/docsummary.php?docID=818[/URL]

According to the report itself the WCML didn't fully reopen until the following Monday. The 11th was a Thursday. At the time I was working at two different sites in London meaning that I'd use either Paddington or Waterloo (from Reading) as appropriate. My normal routine on a Friday would be to go into Paddington but come out from Waterloo as on that day I'd work at both sites, hence that might well be the day I saw The Clansman at Paddington.

I've therefore just dug out some old copies of 'Rail Enthusiast' magazine. In the January 1985 edition there's mention of 47599+87028 being spotted on The Clansman at Taplow. It says that the train started at Euston and ran via Willesden and Acton onto the GWML but it doesn't give an actual date, maybe it was on the Saturday? Anyway that does seem to prove at least one occasion when an AC electric would have been seen at Reading. Maybe that's what's in this photo?
 

edwin_m

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It was common for a train to be dragged complete with electric loco when diverted off the wires to re-join the electrified route later in its journey, as would be the case with a diversion via Reading that ended up at Euston. However I can't think anyone would want to drag the loco into a non-electrified terminus, because of the amount of shunting needed to get the diesel and the electric the right way round for the return journey. This would be at a time when the extra trains were making the terminus busier than usual anyway.
 

Juniper Driver

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Has an 86 or any panned locos ever been to Waterloo or any other 3rd rail terminus?

Well apart from 71s I guess.
 

Deepgreen

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Not quite in the spirit of the thread (ACs in service away their home territory), but here's a 302 at Clapham yard en route to Eastleigh.
 

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Sunbird24

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Good find. You've put c.1985. Coaches all blue-grey and the nearest still with an M prefix. It's only a small sample of coaches, but would you expect a few in executive livery and/or without prefixes by 1985? Could your photo be that same event that I photo'd in 1982?
2 minutes after this post came another stating 11 Oct 1984 which I am inclined to agree with as the next batch of photos includes my daughter at Christmas 1984. This picture would most likely have been taken the following day, Friday 12th October, in the late morning, and a comment from another user here suggests it most likely started from Euston and joined the main GW line at Acton. The first coach does not appear to be Mk 3.
The very next photograph I took shows a class 56, 56065, on another passenger train from the London direction, will add a link here showing the coaching stock type.
url]
 

eastwestdivide

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That would all make sense. Mine was only a suggestion.
The first coach being a Mk2 aircon BSO was a fairly typical arrangement on the WCML at the time - BG at the London end, first class, Mk1 buffet, second class incl. a BSO at the north end.
 

gg1

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It was common for a train to be dragged complete with electric loco when diverted off the wires to re-join the electrified route later in its journey, as would be the case with a diversion via Reading that ended up at Euston. However I can't think anyone would want to drag the loco into a non-electrified terminus, because of the amount of shunting needed to get the diesel and the electric the right way round for the return journey. This would be at a time when the extra trains were making the terminus busier than usual anyway.

Were there restriction on the use of diesel locos at Euston at the time of the Reading diversion? If not it seems a bizarre decision to drag an electric loco all the way from Nuneaton for the sake of a few miles of electric haulage between Willesden and Euston.
 

eastwestdivide

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Were there restriction on the use of diesel locos at Euston at the time of the Reading diversion? If not it seems a bizarre decision to drag an electric loco all the way from Nuneaton for the sake of a few miles of electric haulage between Willesden and Euston.

It does seem bizarre, but two things suggest probably no restriction:
1: Euston had two Cl.25 pilots in the early 80s, working parcels vans.
2: due to Sunday engineering diversions in the early 80s, I rode behind a 45/1 on a diverted St Pancras train from Leicester via Bedford and Bletchley into Euston. And yes, it went all the way to the buffers at Euston (I've a photo somewhere). There were northbound diversions as well.
 

gg1

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It does seem bizarre, but two things suggest probably no restriction:
1: Euston had two Cl.25 pilots in the early 80s, working parcels vans.
2: due to Sunday engineering diversions in the early 80s, I rode behind a 45/1 on a diverted St Pancras train from Leicester via Bedford and Bletchley into Euston. And yes, it went all the way to the buffers at Euston (I've a photo somewhere). There were northbound diversions as well.

Just occured to me there is one scenario which would explain it. If the blockage was for 4 days (just plucking that number out of the air, the number doesn't really matter), in days 1-3 there would be a loco change at either Coventry or Nuneaton with the journey to Euston being diesel hauled throughout. On day 4 there would be a need to move a number of electric locos south ready for the morning northbound services following the reopening of the WCML route, simply eliminating the loco change and dragging them would be the most straightforward way of doing so.
 

eastwestdivide

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Just occured to me there is one scenario which would explain it. If the blockage was for 4 days (just plucking that number out of the air, the number doesn't really matter), in days 1-3 there would be a loco change at either Coventry or Nuneaton with the journey to Euston being diesel hauled throughout. On day 4 there would be a need to move a number of electric locos south ready for the morning northbound services following the reopening of the WCML route, simply eliminating the loco change and dragging them would be the most straightforward way of doing so.

Or even vice versa on the other days, if there happened to be electric locos at Euston that they wanted moving north. Which would explain your Reading shot with an electric being towed in what's clearly the "down" direction.
 

Beebman

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2 minutes after this post came another stating 11 Oct 1984 which I am inclined to agree with as the next batch of photos includes my daughter at Christmas 1984. This picture would most likely have been taken the following day, Friday 12th October, in the late morning, and a comment from another user here suggests it most likely started from Euston and joined the main GW line at Acton. The first coach does not appear to be Mk 3.
The very next photograph I took shows a class 56, 56065, on another passenger train from the London direction, will add a link here showing the coaching stock type. [url]https://www.flickr.com/photos/56186958@N05/33852849375/in/datetaken*********[/url][/QUOTE]

I am very certain that I saw The Clansman at Paddington and I do clearly remember seeing Inverness displayed on the main departure board (and that it was a weekday) so I'd strongly believe that any Euston via Acton workings would have been at the weekend. However of course I can't say anything for 100% certain and it doesn't help that I didn't have time to go and see what was on the front of the train as I had to get to work!

EDIT: I think this is the departure board in use at Paddington at the time although the photo is from 1985:

[URL="https://www.flickr.com/photos/15977833@N07/6042705431"]https://www.flickr.com/photos/15977833@N07/6042705431[/URL]
 
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Sunbird24

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A little more research has shown that the Clansman at that time was formed of Mk 2 stock, scheduled departure from Euston was 0935 in May 1982 and 0745 in May 1986. Secondly it is quite possible that some trains may have gone to Euston and others to Paddington for operational reasons. There were certainly a lot of extra trains running through Reading, some with electrics inside and some without. Another factor may have been storage space for electric locos at Coventry. Since the one I photographed has mostly Mk 3 coaches it was probably not the Clansman but the one behind 56065 might have been. All speculation until someone comes up with more information. Here is another diverted train the same morning https://www.flickr.com/photos/56186958@N05/33818728306/in/datetaken/
 

749259

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A little more research has shown that the Clansman at that time was formed of Mk 2 stock, scheduled departure from Euston was 0935 in May 1982 and 0745 in May 1986. Secondly it is quite possible that some trains may have gone to Euston and others to Paddington for operational reasons. There were certainly a lot of extra trains running through Reading, some with electrics inside and some without. Another factor may have been storage space for electric locos at Coventry. Since the one I photographed has mostly Mk 3 coaches it was probably not the Clansman but the one behind 56065 might have been. All speculation until someone comes up with more information. Here is another diverted train the same morning https://www.flickr.com/photos/56186958@N05/33818728306/in/datetaken/

Could it have been 56066?

Railgen archive suggests Friday 12th October would be your date ... 47279 is also listed as working on this date, 56066 also active:

http://railgenarchive.co.uk/sc/diary.php?yr=1984&mn=10&fl=AL

Mystery solved?
 

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Mag_seven

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I'm not convinced that during this period of disruption any AC electric was dragged into Paddington. I'm sure all the AC electrics observed on the Western were dragged to and from Euston via Acton bank. Only a photo of one in Paddington will convince me. If it did happen there must be a photo out there!
 
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