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Accident at Welshpool (16 July 2013)

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dvboy

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According to BBC Midlands Today on Twitter (@bbcmtd) a train has hit a tractor.

From NRE:

No trains between Shrewsbury and Machynlleth until further notice Live updates:Follow uson Twitter
Search for live updates on this specific disruption our Twitter page
Incident created 16/07/2013 12:10
Last updated 16/07/2013 12:21
Route affected Download map of route afected
Birmingham International, Birmingham New Street, Wolverhampton, Telford Central, Wellington, Shrewsbury, Welshpool, Newton, Caersws, Machynlleth and Pwllheli / Aberystwyth


TOC(s) affected Arriva Trains Wales;
Description A problem at a level crossing is causing disruption near Welshpool.

Because of this, trains between Shrewsbury and Machynlleth are currently suspended. There is no estimate for when a normal service will resume.

Buses are being organised to run between these stations.

Twitter hashtag: #Welshpool
 
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The Planner

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1J11 has hit the back end of a tractor at Buttington Hall crossing. No injuries reported.
 

AndyPJG

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-23331232

"Between 150 and 200 passengers were on board, but only two people suffered minor injuries and were taken to hospital."

"Two patients were treated at the scene for minor injuries and conveyed to the minor injuries unit in Welshpool.

"No further casualties were identified at scene."

Edit: BBC News item updated, including quote "As part of that investigation, a 27-year-old man has this afternoon been arrested on suspicion of endangering safety. He has been taken to a police station, where he is assisting my officers with their enquiries (sic)."
 
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PHILIPE

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After being on a train which hit the back of a lorry a glancing blow on a crossing in the Buttington area about 4 years ago after which the driver was prosecuted for failing to contact the signaller, I would have thought the locals in the area would have been more careful now. It was hardly a secret
 

the-gog

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There have been two previous train>tractor incidents at Buttington Hall Farm crossing. The last was 2004 when the impact derailed the 158. The previous was in the 1990s when a 150 hit a reversing Massey Ferguson tractor and swiped the weights off the front of it. The 150 driver was badly injured. The MF driver got a suspended sentence for that.

The Daily Mirror reports that it was the tractor driver who got arrested today.

My photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/welsh_snapper/sets/72157634660925319/

The 158s went off to Shrewsbury.
 

PHILIPE

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After being on a train which hit the back of a lorry a glancing blow on a crossing in the Buttington area about 4 years ago after which the driver was prosecuted for failing to contact the signaller, I would have thought the locals in the area would have been more careful now. It was hardly a secret
It was September 2008 on a nearby crossing.
 

Michael.Y

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Fortunate that the tractor was going left-right. A new air dam and a new gangway is preferable to what could have happened if it hit driver-side.
 

martybabes

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Buttington Hall is fitted with Telephones, the idiot probably didnt use em!

It is possible that the tractor-driver may have been trying to use them, or there may be a million other possibilities why the collision occurred.

Speculation about the cause of the collision without knowing any of the facts is somewhat pointless. But let us not allow the facts to get in the way of a good story (as someone might have once said).
 

transmanche

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The Daily Mirror reports that it was the tractor driver who got arrested today.

Daily Mirror said:
Tractor driver's miracle escape after 70mph service smashes into his vehicle.

A tractor driver cheated death today after trying to travel across tracks moments before a 70mph train smashed into him. The driver was towing a trailer into a neighbouring field and decided to cross the line with the busy service fast approaching. Detectives from British Transport Police arrested the 27-year-old on suspicion of endangering safety following the smash.
Source: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/welshpool-train-crash-tractor-drivers-2057226

Although I would have thought "Train driver's miracle escape..." would be more accurate.

Buttington Hall is fitted with Telephones, the idiot probably didnt use em!
One of the commenters on the Mirror article makes the same point. "If you look at the pictures one is of a sign that quite clearly states 'Stop - always telephone before crossing with vehicles or animals to find out if there is time to cross.'. A lot of these farm crossings are misused because farmers think it's too much bother to phone and check. And the phone is recorded, so the Police will know whether he made contact or not."

Is that last part true? Are such calls recorded?
 

the-gog

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It is possible that the tractor-driver may have been trying to use them, or there may be a million other possibilities why the collision occurred.

What, using the phone to ask for permission to cross with his tractor parked on the railway line?
 

BestWestern

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transmanche:1507578 said:
Is that last part true? Are such calls recorded?

Generally all lines to a signal box will be recorded, so it's very likely.
 

martybabes

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What, using the phone to ask for permission to cross with his tractor parked on the railway line?

He may already have been granted permission before his tractor failed. As I said, there may be a million possibilities.

We could use this lovely weather and the time we clearly have on our hands to list most of them...
 

sarahj

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Often, with these type of crossing, the person crossing, also needs to call when they are clear. I've been delayed a few times by drivers that have phoned to cross, then just driven off, so its go slow, just in case. The problem with these type of crossings (and I'm not saying, this is what happend here), is when the driver is going back and forth, they think, oh why bother, no train is due, 99 times out of 100 they make it, but then one day train is late, and bam!!!
 

Tomnick

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There's generally no need to get the user to call back, or provide signal protection, unless it's a 'large, low or slow moving vehicle' (or animals, or anything with small wheels) - so, whilst there might not quite be a million possibilities, it's perhaps a little unrealistic to try to guess with any expectation of accuracy what's happened. It's surely true that crossing misuse is the cause of most such collisions though?
 

TDK

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Buttington Hall is fitted with Telephones, the idiot probably didnt use em!

Yawn - No evidence as yet
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
There's generally no need to get the user to call back, or provide signal protection, unless it's a 'large, low or slow moving vehicle' (or animals, or anything with small wheels) - so, whilst there might not quite be a million possibilities, it's perhaps a little unrealistic to try to guess with any expectation of accuracy what's happened. It's surely true that crossing misuse is the cause of most such collisions though?

I have always been cautioned (as a driver) when a member of the public has used a phone to gain permission to cross and has not called back to confirm the movement has been completed.
 

AndyPJG

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...... And the phone is recorded, so the Police will know whether he made contact or not."

Is that last part true? Are such calls recorded?

I think 'recorded' might in fact mean 'logged' as in an entry should be made into the signal register as a record of the call having been made.
 

Llanigraham

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Is that last part true? Are such calls recorded?


All calls on this line and any other are now recorded.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
There's generally no need to get the user to call back, or provide signal protection, unless it's a 'large, low or slow moving vehicle' (or animals, or anything with small wheels) - so, whilst there might not quite be a million possibilities, it's perhaps a little unrealistic to try to guess with any expectation of accuracy what's happened. It's surely true that crossing misuse is the cause of most such collisions though?

A tractor and trailer is considered a "slow moving or large vehicle" therefore they are told to ring back when they are clear. If they fail to do so then the next train to cross that crossing will be cautioned to check that the crossing is clear and all gates closed.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I think 'recorded' might in fact mean 'logged' as in an entry should be made into the signal register as a record of the call having been made.

There is no TRB on the Cambrian, and all calls are recorded, just the same as in all 'boxes now.
 
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Tomnick

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A tractor and trailer is considered a "slow moving or large vehicle" therefore they are told to ring back when they are clear. If they fail to do so then the next train to cross that crossing will be cautioned to check that the crossing is clear and all gates closed.
I agree with you (indeed, most folk on our line - myself included - will treat a tractor on its own in the same manner) - but where's this laid down in writing? Slow moving or large vehicles have defined limits on AHB signage, which exclude the vast majority of road movements.
 

AndyPJG

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If the crossing was a UWC (User Worked Crossing) ie non-public highway, then I would have thought all vehicular moves (and flocks/herds etc) would require signaller's permission.
 

Tomnick

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Signal protection (and getting the user to call back when clear) doesn't need to be provided for every user wishing to take a vehicle across though.
 

Lockwood

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There's generally no need to get the user to call back, or provide signal protection, unless it's a 'large, low or slow moving vehicle' (or animals, or anything with small wheels)
Quick question on that, albeit tangental - often wondered about that on public footpath crossings (or UWC with public footpath alongside a la Southease).
Joe Public walking his dog. Does he need to contact the signaller, since he is controlling an animal, or not since he is not trying to control a herd of livestock?
 

IanXC

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Joe Public walking his dog. Does he need to contact the signaller, since he is controlling an animal, or not since he is not trying to control a herd of livestock?

Maybe it depends on the dog?!

Presumably on a lead?
 

Llanigraham

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Quick question on that, albeit tangental - often wondered about that on public footpath crossings (or UWC with public footpath alongside a la Southease).
Joe Public walking his dog. Does he need to contact the signaller, since he is controlling an animal, or not since he is not trying to control a herd of livestock?

I have 3 UWC's with telephones, one of which is pedestrian only, and we never ask the user to call back on that one. A dog on a lead is NOT livestock.

The requirements for vehicles is that if they are large, long or slow, or any combination of those three, then they call back when the move is complete. Therefore a tractor, with or without a trailer, fits at least 2 of those.

No call; caution the next one!
 

broadgage

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If the driver of the road vehicle is found to be at fault, which seems probable though not of course certain, then I hope that they or their insurers are made to pay the full costs of the incident including.

Cost of repairing damage to train
Leasing costs of the train for the time it is unavailable due to repairs
Delay minutes for other services affected
NHS costs
Bus hire costs
Etc.

Both bridge bashes and level crossing misuse result in considerable costs to the railway which are in effect met by the farepayer or taxpayer, rather than by the guilty party.
 

transmanche

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I know a dog is not livestock, but it is an animal
http://s3.freefoto.com/images/23/49/23_49_71_web.jpg
"Persons in charge of animals, phone signalman before crossing"
If we're going to be pedantic, it says 'animals' not 'animal'.

Seriously, is it not obvious that the requirement is for when herding a group of animals across? Not when one person is controlling one domestic animal on a lead.
 
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