Accident on NYMR, 21-9-21

[Cowley]

It's the 3rd coach not the 4th (and possibly the 1st, looked at from the platform side) that look to be in an "awkward" position, whether or not they are derailed.

It looks a bit like the 3rd coach has overridden the buffers on the 2nd coach maybe?

 

[matt]

The coaches are now in the headhunt at Grosmont now presumably awaiting a full inspection. The 20 has been shunted into various locations around Grosmont MPD today.

 

[GC class B1]

It's the 3rd coach not the 4th (and possibly the 1st, looked at from the platform side) that look to be in an "awkward" position, whether or not they are derailed.

I agree the coaches are in an unusual position and may or may not be derailed. The loco is a small distance away from the coaches which suggests to me a heavy impact and the the loco and coaches then sprung apart after the contact.

It looks a bit like the 3rd coach has overridden the buffers on the 2nd coach maybe?

This is unlikely. See my post no. 20

 

[2HAP]

RAIB to issue a safety digest.

[Withdrawn] Collision at Grosmont

Collision at Grosmont station, North Yorkshire Moors Railway, 21 September 2021.

www.gov.uk

At about 10:32 hrs on 21 September 2021, a class 20 diesel locomotive collided with the rear of a stationary passenger train at Grosmont station on the North Yorkshire Moors Railway. The collision occurred at around 10 mph. It resulted in minor injuries to five passengers and some damage to the passenger train.

 

[Titfield]

RAIB to issue a safety digest.

[Withdrawn] Collision at Grosmont

Collision at Grosmont station, North Yorkshire Moors Railway, 21 September 2021.

www.gov.uk

This suggests that there is / are safety learning(s) from this collision.

 

[ainsworth74]

This suggests that there is / are safety learning(s) from this collision.

I believe with digests it's more there's a safety point that's already been learnt but needs reemphasising usually. If you look at previous examples of digests then at the top there's usually a box outlining the key safety messages followed by what happened and previous similar occurrences. They'd tend to do a full report if there was something new to learn.

 

[alexl92]

Does anyone know if the Safety Digest has been published yet? The admin on one of the facebook groups I'm part of has stated that any discussion about this incident is now banned as the RAIB have published their report - but I've just searched and can't see it.
Cheers

 

[Flying Phil]

In the release dated 1 October it says "....The safety digest will be made available on our website in the next few weeks."

 

[ainsworth74]

No it's not out yet. Personally I tend to find "the next couple of months" might be more accurate than "the next few weeks" when it comes to publication of digests

 

[alexl92]

Thanks!

 

[John Webb]

A quick look at the last dozen or so digests suggests an average of around 3 months from incident to publication.....

 

[LGM08]

Safety digest has just been released. Quite an interesting but worrying thing to read. Neither steam crew nor track inspector were familiar with the loco yet still intended on using it.

Safety digest 08/2021: Collision at Grosmont

Collision between a locomotive and a passenger train at Grosmont, 21 September 2021.

www.gov.uk

 

[75A]

Safety digest has just been released. Quite an interesting but worrying thing to read. Neither steam crew nor track inspector were familiar with the loco yet still intended on using it.

Safety digest 08/2021: Collision at Grosmont

Collision between a locomotive and a passenger train at Grosmont, 21 September 2021.

www.gov.uk

Proving yet again how ridiculous the design of he Class 20 was.

 

[ComUtoR]

Proving yet again how ridiculous the design of he Class 20 was.

Were permissive working incidents common with the Class 20 or were incidents common when driven from that cab ?

 

[43096]

Safety digest has just been released. Quite an interesting but worrying thing to read. Neither steam crew nor track inspector were familiar with the loco yet still intended on using it.

Safety digest 08/2021: Collision at Grosmont

Collision between a locomotive and a passenger train at Grosmont, 21 September 2021.

www.gov.uk

Not only that, they did drive the loco despite not being qualified, and on Network Rail infrastructure.

 

[Royston Vasey]

Proving yet again how ridiculous the design of he Class 20 was.

They've done ok for sixty years; having a driver and traction inspector that "didn't [hold] the relevant driving competency for the class 20 locomotive" rather more to the point here.

 

[TheSel]

Proving yet again how ridiculous the design of he Class 20 was.

To quote the second paragraph of Section 3 of the Safety Digest in full:

The class 20 locomotive, designed in the 1950s, is only fitted with a cab at one end. This means that a driver’s visibility of the line ahead is much more restricted when the nose end is leading, with the driver having to look through a narrow window past the side of the locomotive, in a similar manner to a driver of a steam locomotive.

So are you arguing that the design of steam locomotives was ridiculous, too?

 

[pdeaves]

To quote the second paragraph of Section 3 of the Safety Digest in full:

The class 20 locomotive, designed in the 1950s, is only fitted with a cab at one end. This means that a driver’s visibility of the line ahead is much more restricted when the nose end is leading, with the driver having to look through a narrow window past the side of the locomotive, in a similar manner to a driver of a steam locomotive.

It does seem odd that a driver used to steam locos couldn't see when driving a diesel shaped like a steam loco.

 

[alexl92]

They've done ok for sixty years; having a driver and traction inspector that "didn't [hold] the relevant driving competency for the class 20 locomotive" rather more to the point here.

It also makes me wonder why (aside from probably running costs) the NYMR chose to hire in a Class 20 when it’s not a class their crews would be familiar with… or at least their traction inspectors. I know they have hired them in before but I imagine any competency from last time would have lapsed by now. Surely hiring in a 37 would have made more sense?

 

[paul1609]

I rather imagine hiring in a mainline registered 37 would be ££

 

[Titfield]

It also makes me wonder why (aside from probably running costs) the NYMR chose to hire in a Class 20 when it’s not a class their crews would be familiar with… or at least their traction inspectors. I know they have hired them in before but I imagine any competency from last time would have lapsed by now. Surely hiring in a 37 would have made more sense?

A very good question. How often do HRs hire in a different type of locomotive because "we have not had one here before / we havent had one here for a long time / the volunteers and enthusiasts would like it"?

Does raise questions about diesel and steam galas where you may have crews unfamiliar with a line or crews unfamiliar with a loco type working together.

An inability to produce records of competency is imho extremely worrying.

 

[alexl92]

A very good question. How often do HRs hire in a different type of locomotive because "we have not had one here before / we havent had one here for a long time / the volunteers and enthusiasts would like it"?

Does raise questions about diesel and steam galas where you may have crews unfamiliar with a line or crews unfamiliar with a loco type working together.

An inability to produce records of competency is imho extremely worrying.

I did think about Galas but normally I believe the owner of a hired-in loco will send a representative who presumably is traction-competent?

 

[GC class B1]

I agree this is very worrying and reminds me of the Wotton Bassett incident with a West Coast Railway driver.

 

[Taunton]

They've done ok for sixty years

I believe that after early operations, at a time when steam locomotive experience was usual, the Class 20 ceased to be operated singly, and was always used outside depots in pairs, nose-to-nose, cabs outermost. I seem to recall it having been a union issue that led to this. In any event it suited such a low-powered locomotive.

 

[randyrippley]

It does seem odd that a driver used to steam locos couldn't see when driving a diesel shaped like a steam loco.

surely the fireman should have been watching the blind side? or was it just bad speed judgement in an unfamiliar loco??

 

[pdeaves]

I believe that after early operations, at a time when steam locomotive experience was usual, the Class 20 ceased to be operated singly, and was always used outside depots in pairs, nose-to-nose, cabs outermost.

Preferable, but not 'always'.

 

[Foxhunter]

fwiw Wikepedia on the Class 20's contains this within the Overview: "Several that are usually operated singly have been fitted with nose-mounted video cameras as a way of solving the visibility problems". I would imagine that RAIB would have mentioned it if the locomitive in the accident has been so fitted.

 

[GB]

Proving yet again how ridiculous the design of he Class 20 was.

"yet again"??? Do tell....

 

[alexl92]

Also, what happened to the 47 that the NYMR were meant to be hiring in from Somerset?

 

[SeaKing]

Also, what happened to the 47 that the NYMR were meant to be hiring in from Somerset?

Last i heard still at Bishops Lydeard, problem with Road Authorities allowing the road transport because of the weight.