Acela 2 on its way to testing

[AlexNL]

The livery of the unit on test isn't final yet. A second unit was outshopped not too long ago and this had the blue band continue on the power cars.

 

[Jamesrob637]

That's real. Tests are going on and the train has reached speeds up to 165mph.

French trains were doing that speed in 1980. Only 40 years to catch up USA

Will these be doubled and split as per TGVs allowing for more peak capacity into and out of NYC, Philly, Washington and Boston?

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Looking forward to taking one of these. I will probably fly CHA-ATL-BOS then overnight in MA then train Boston to DC then fly out of Ronald Reagan via ATL back to CHA

 

[cle]

It will be interesting to see how Amtrak gets on with fixed-formation articulated sets, instead of their traditional approach to mechanical issues of "cutting out cars" and having the rest continue.

Regarding the locos being a different profile to the coaches, again that's something just alien to European eyes. It's not just the bodywork, the livery application doesn't align either. I recall the Chicago rapid transit, by the 1970s, had three separate batches of cars, all compatible and able to multiple together, but with completely different body styles, which looked ridiculous trained together. Eventually a design house (I think it was Sundberg-Ferar) got a job to achieve something of it, and came up with quite a clever livery and striping application to make it look less obvious. Then the next batch of cars were delivered, with quite a different livery ...

Current Acela is fixed at 7, no? Which is crazy short in itself. Most of the key stations can take 10-12 without problem.

But the rest of Amtrak Regional and other, is a random mix of consists and operations.

 

[Sad Sprinter]

Makes you feel funny looking at it

 

[longhorn]

Amtrak is testing Avelia on the NEC.

As regards looks, Amtrak had certain priorities and more important set price per consist. Alstrom looked at its present product book, and came up with a "new" product for Amtrak ( I doubt we will see this new product sold anywhere else in the world). Aesthetics was secondary.

 

[AlexNL]

I doubt we will see this new product sold anywhere else in the world

The "Avelia Liberty" concept is capable of achieving speeds up to 220mph (354 km/h), but only with tilt disabled. Perhaps Alstom are hoping to be able to use the Avelia Liberty to get a foot in the door for future rolling stock, such as for the California HSR project?

 

[BahrainLad]

How does the loading gauge / cross-section of these units compare to the UK or French equivalent. I presume it's bigger than the UK.

Having done the Acela a few times it is a shame how slowly it has to travel over some extremely antiquated infrastructure. The station at New London, CT is quite comically provincial.

 

[Gag Halfrunt]

The Avelia Liberty wouldn't work as a "foot in the door" for California:

Why would Alstom want to market this train in California? California doesn’t need tilting trains, so it’s much simpler for Alstom to market the AGV; in fact, the California HSR technical documents use the AGV as one of four example trains for purposes of figuring out schedules and infrastructure requirements.
...
The problem with the foot-in-the-door theory is that it compels Alstom to build a top-notch train, which may not be possible given the specs. If there’s a groundswell of HSR construction in the next 20 years, and Alstom is remembered for building a high-maintenance lemon, it’s unlikely to get orders for a while. The risk here is greater than the reward.

Loading gauge is larger than in the UK or continental Europe, with trains 3.2 m wide (roughly the same as in the former USSR, China and the Shinkansen network in Japan).

 

[longhorn]

The good thing about the Avelia is that is made from tried and proven components. May not be as sexy as am AGV, but it will work.

 

[nlogax]

Eastern testing has been on the Philadelphia to Harrisburg line which - until today - has been closed to customer traffic during the pandemic. It's decent enough as a testing environment goes, some 110mph sections exist so one assumes Avelia has begun to stretch its legs...though the footage we've seen doesn't really confirm it.

 

[Taunton]

The good thing about the Avelia is that is made from tried and proven components. May not be as sexy as am AGV, but it will work.

Could that be a bit like North British in the 1960s in Britain with their fine, reliable diesels, because the components were all tried and proven from Germany ... .

 

[jopsuk]

Still can't get over the body profile of the power cars and the passenger rakes being so noticeably different. How hard would it have been to at least have a cosmetic bulging towards the rear of the power car bodywork to match?

 

[TRAX]

Still can't get over the body profile of the power cars and the passenger rakes being so noticeably different. How hard would it have been to at least have a cosmetic bulging towards the rear of the power car bodywork to match?

I agree, especially that it's something that Amtrak has already done on a few of its power cars, especially on the roof.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

How does the loading gauge / cross-section of these units compare to the UK or French equivalent. I presume it's bigger than the UK.

Having done the Acela a few times it is a shame how slowly it has to travel over some extremely antiquated infrastructure. The station at New London, CT is quite comically provincial.

Providence RI not that much better either.

 

[nlogax]

I agree, especially that it's something that Amtrak has already done on a few of its power cars, especially on the roof.

Over the years Acela roof shrouds have been missing in action and back again in the same manner as Cl 442 jumper recess covers. The roof shrouds had a tendency to peel off at speed so they were originally removed early on.

Going by many of their previous trains, I'm not sure that Amtrak are all that fussed about aesthetics. My guess is they won't do anything about the mismatch between loco and stock.

 

[longhorn]

Mismatched power and pax cars seem not to be a concern of the manufacturer, the one who has to sell these things.

 

[Bayum]

Mismatched power and pax cars seem not to be a concern of the manufacturer, the one who has to sell these things.

Or maybe the product Amtrack wanted was this model and Amtrack were happy with that?

 

[NYCSubway137]

I am loving the overall train design, a great departure to what we often get here in the States. If this train is successful for Amtrak, this could help accelerate the high speed train movement in the U.S. in light of the recently opened diesel high speed service in Florida (private operator).

 

[TRAX]

Or maybe the product Amtrack wanted was this model and Amtrack were happy with that?

It’s not a fully off-the-shelf product.

 

[Jozhua]

As much as I worry about the health of Amtrak given the current circumstances, at least the quiet rails and probably okay staff availability due to covid could help with testing/training?

We'll see, I hope this project proves lucrative for them!

French trains were doing that speed in 1980. Only 40 years to catch up USA

Will these be doubled and split as per TGVs allowing for more peak capacity into and out of NYC, Philly, Washington and Boston?

To be fair, Amtrak has had to do this on a fraction of the budget the TGV program had available. Their concentration on the profitable North East Corridor routes to prop up the business appears to be working well. Hopefully more income from these projects will help them invest into making other areas of the business profitable too.

I am loving the overall train design, a great departure to what we often get here in the States. If this train is successful for Amtrak, this could help accelerate the high speed train movement in the U.S. in light of the recently opened diesel high speed service in Florida (private operator).

Totally agree, I absolutely love the colour scheme too, even down to the mismatch between the cars, honestly it's funky and different I can't bash it. Shared bogies is cool to see as well.

I doubt high speed rail in the US will properly manage to take off for a number of years, not until some decent federal funding is dedicated to it. But Amtrak and Brightling should hopefully have moderate successes where they run.

 

[cle]

Off the core route, there would be nowhere worthwhile to split these. The only other wired route is to Harrisburg (Keystone seems to be the best place for the old Acelas, given how many regionals go beyond DC)

They're much higher capacity than Acelas, so I'd expect the initial uplift to enable some growth. Maybe carriage orders would be the next strategy, and lengthening - given that extra paths are basically out of the question without some give elsewhere, or the Portals.

 

[nlogax]

Off the core route, there would be nowhere worthwhile to split these. The only other wired route is to Harrisburg (Keystone seems to be the best place for the old Acelas, given how many regionals go beyond DC)

It'd certainly be one way to achieve the desired 90 minute journey time which has been on the wish list for the best part of two decades.

 

[Jozhua]

One of the upsides of having a loading guage somewhat bigger than the actual width of the rails, is you can have tilting and perhaps not have a cramped interior a la Pandelino. Although the Pandelino tilts 8 degrees, whilst Acela currently does 4 and I believe Avelia will do 6?

Tilting is restricted by FRA somewhat and also Metro North doesn't seem to like it on their track.

 

[RichJF]

That is one of the ugliest trains I've seen in a while. I usually love American locos/trains as well!
The whole body profile just looks wrong & the coaches & locos look they are two completely different trains mashed together!

Anyway, it still seems incredible that the 1st gen Acelas are going to be retired. Amtrak could've done what SNCF did with their TGV PSE sets & refit them & use them on shorter services that don't require the full speed. The TGV PSE were 40 years old; the 1st gen Acelas are 20!

 

[BahrainLad]

Presumably 20 years of hammering up and down the NEC, in the depths of extreme winter and heat of summer, with quite high humidity in the summer too, is quite hard work vs 20 years of operating on LGVs in France?

 

[Jamesrob637]

Presumably 20 years of hammering up and down the NEC, in the depths of extreme winter and heat of summer, with quite high humidity in the summer too, is quite hard work vs 20 years of operating on LGVs in France?

I dunno... Paris and Lyon have slightly different climates but the LGV Sud-Est does go through places which can be very snowy and well below 0 in winter yet well above 30 in summer. Most of France save for northern coastal areas is very much more extreme than the UK and more like the East Coast of the USA.

The only saving grace was that the TGV Sud-Est sets weren't as intensively used in the early days. Long gaps in the service even during weekdays and SNCF alternated which sets were used at weekends. Many sets stood idle in Châtillon or wherever from Friday evening to Sunday evening/Monday morning.

 

[Gag Halfrunt]

The original Acela trains are very heavy because of FRA crashworthiness requirements, and unreliable because of problems caused by their weight.

In order to procure the world’s best off-the-shelf train for the least amount of money, Amtrak decided to buy an existing design from a European or Japanese manufacturer, who have decades of experience building and operating high-speed trains. The winner of this competition was a consortium of Bombadier and Alstom (the French TGV builder).

Then, in 1999 with Acela planning fully underway, the FRA pulled the rug out by issuing regulations for high-speed rail service requiring trains to withstand 800,000 pounds force without deformation. The 800,000 figure is an arbitrary number dating back to the 1920s; this mandate has since been increased to 1 million pounds.

The buffering requirement confounded Bombadier. Train weight is of crucial importance as it affects the amount of track wear, noise, and energy costs. To meet the buffering regulation, the train would have to be significantly bulked-up. The result was a highspeed train nearly twice as heavy as its European counterparts. As such, the Acela has been described variously as a tank-on-wheels and a bank-vault-on-wheels. Indeed, an overweight train like Acela would be banned from the European high speed rail network.

Because the extra weight put so much strain on the train body (which was never designed to handle suchloads) trainsets suffered excessive wheel wear, cracks in the yaw damper and brake rotors, and other problems which can probably never be completely fixed. Whereas the original contract called for trains to run 400,000 miles between equipment failures, the Acela can barely manage 20,000 miles.

 

[Jamesrob637]

The original Acela trains are very heavy because of FRA crashworthiness requirements, and unreliable because of problems caused by their weight.

So they're like a 1970s/1980s Mercedes in every way bar reliability! That said an old merc does cost a fair bit when something goes bang, but with the right maintenance this shouldn't be often.

 

[BahrainLad]

The original Acela trains are very heavy because of FRA crashworthiness requirements, and unreliable because of problems caused by their weight.

Do the same requirements apply to Acela 2?