Adult Caught on Child Ticket going through Barrier

[sonic2009]

I'm confused as to what the standard practice is in regards to this. Yesterday while awaiting a train at Slough, a 18yr old woman came through the barriers on a Child Ticket, Gateline Staff immediately stopped her after it flagging up on the screen. Now the FGW revenue protection guy, ripped up her ticket and let her back out and said Go and Buy a New Ticket, Didn't know where she was travelling. No Penalty Fare was given, now when a situation arises is it an excess to the Adult Ticket or A straight you lose the money you paid for your child ticket and buy a brand new ticket. Personally I think a brand new ticket, but what's practice?

(in reference to age dob was given as 1993 when asked)

 

[DaveNewcastle]

The report is a little short on detail, but it seems to be an instance of travel without a valid ticket (and all the consequences that follow, which we probably don't need to elaborate on again . . . . ).

With no valid ticket, the RPI's could have been justified in taking an MG11 statement from the passenger with a view to considering legal action for a Byelaw ticketing offence; thay could have been equally justified in considering a much more serious action (in terms of a Criminal Record) for a Fraud (based on my assumption that the passenger had bought 'a child ticket' to which they were not entitled with the purpose of defrauding the Railway Operator of the correct fare).

The way you have described it suggests that the RPIs were exceptionally lenient, and by destroying the 'child ticket' then they had deliberately destroyed the evidence which should have made the Fraud prosecution very easy.

In summary, that passenger was let off lightly.

As for your question "is it an excess to the Adult Ticket or A straight you lose the money you paid for your child ticket and buy a brand new ticket", then it is certainly NOT an excess after the event! A new, replacement ticket at the full price is what I have described as a lenient response. There are staff who regularly encounter this situation daily and take a hard line that an adult travelling on a child ticket is attempted Fraud.

 

[185]

That's how I've dealt with it in most cases, except where they are just downright horrid.

 

[bb21]

I agree. This is one area where the passenger cannot possibly be unaware that she was not on a valid ticket.

Easy prosecution to me. Got off very lightly.

 

[jon0844]

Perhaps it's a very effective way to stop it though; will she bother to waste money on a child ticket that doesn't get her anywhere?

Do it enough times to enough people and word will get around, and you've saved a load of paperwork!

 

[bnm]

I'm assuming, at the very least, the RPI questioned her to ascertain her age.

 

[sonic2009]

Infact it was the Gateline Staff who questioned her age and then passed her on to the RPI. Well i think he was. RPI's where Grey Suits dont they?

 

[Cherry_Picker]

Pretty young girl getting away with something she shouldnt? I wonder if the fact that she was pretty, young and female had anything to do with it?

 

[sonic2009]

She didn't really argue with the RPI or Gateline Staff. It was over within a Matter of Minutes.

 

[Flamingo]

Depends on the situation, most cases I'll rip it up and sell a new ticket (with a suitable warning). It's only idiots who insist they are 15 (some with beards, for chrissakes), or they want an excess, not a new ticket, that get put onto police / RPI's.

I will sometimes excess, if they say their age straight-away as 16 / 17 and they seem to be genuinely confused about the age limit. The other thing about 16/17 year olds is that they are minors, and throwing them off the train is opening a whole new can of worms...

I heard of a joker a while ago, insisting he was 15, "Ring my mum if you don't believe me" he kept saying. BTP arrived, rang his mum - "Hello, Mrs Jones, we have your son here, what age is he? Twenty? Thank you!". £80 fine, plus a new ticket.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

At least this lot had their eyes open; I have lost count of the number of times I have seen an obviously middle aged person go through barriers in London where the barrier flashes up "child ticket" but nobody bothers to stop the said people when the gates open, even if it's a gate right next to a member of staff...

 

[Harlesden]

At least this lot had their eyes open; I have lost count of the number of times I have seen an obviously middle aged person go through barriers in London where the barrier flashes up "child ticket" but nobody bothers to stop the said people when the gates open, even if it's a gate right next to a member of staff...

There are occasions when someone legitimately holding a New Deal 50+ photocard (which entitles him/her to travel at child rate) is issued a child rate ticket where no specific New Deal ticket is available. In the days when I held such a photocard - in its distinctive bright green holder - an RPI would see me pull out the bright green New Deal holder and not bother to check my actual ticket

 

[bnm]

How about a speaker built into to each barrier? Every time a child ticket is used, as well as 'CHILD' flashing up on the screen a disembodied voice says, loud and clear, "Child ticket"

 

[Flamingo]

How about a speaker built into to each barrier? Every time a child ticket is used, as well as 'CHILD' flashing up on the screen a disembodied voice says, loud and clear, "Child ticket"

It should say something more like "Fifteen? You gotta be joking!"

 

[Peter Mugridge]

There are occasions when someone legitimately holding a New Deal 50+ photocard (which entitles him/her to travel at child rate) is issued a child rate ticket where no specific New Deal ticket is available. In the days when I held such a photocard - in its distinctive bright green holder - an RPI would see me pull out the bright green New Deal holder and not bother to check my actual ticket

It's mostly bog standard ticket stock and Travelcards when I see it happening. And the 50+ thing wouldn't apply to those in their 30s and 40s would it? ( When I said middle aged I only wrote that half of it down in the hope of keeping things simple! )

I like bnm's idea.

 

[sonic2009]

How about a speaker built into to each barrier? Every time a child ticket is used, as well as 'CHILD' flashing up on the screen a disembodied voice says, loud and clear, "Child ticket"

Ha reading this made me.chuckle.

 

[Temple Meads]

It should say something more like "Fifteen? You gotta be joking!"

Love it!

 

[Mintona]

Couple of girls got on my train earlier. Friday night train, short skirts, low cut tops, heavy make up. "Can we have two child singles to Deal please?"

"No. No you can't."

 

[trc666]

No doubt completely sozzled as well I bet! On my way home tonight saw a few girls pouring out the local club completely off their faces, doubt they were any older than 16 by the look of them!

 

[b0b]

Couple of girls got on my train earlier. Friday night train, short skirts, low cut tops, heavy make up. "Can we have two child singles to Deal please?"

Should have done the transaction and then said "ok, where are you two adults going? and be sure to give your younger siblings the tickets, so I don't have to charge them!"

 

[class377man]

Couple of girls got on my train earlier. Friday night train, short skirts, low cut tops, heavy make up. "Can we have two child singles to Deal please?"

"No. No you can't."

You should have sold them (impartial retailing and all that jazz) taken your commission and then immediately charged them a full fare adult ticket

 

[trentside]

I will sometimes excess, if they say their age straight-away as 16 / 17 and they seem to be genuinely confused about the age limit. The other thing about 16/17 year olds is that they are minors, and throwing them off the train is opening a whole new can of worms...

I actually overheard a similar situation to this the other day.

A couple of girls had boarded a Northern service and sat just behind me. The station was unstaffed and the guard appeared, the both asked for child tickets and the guard asked them how old they were. I think the first showed a pass proving she was 15, while the second said she was 16 (straight away, no arguing). The guard explained the age limits, and it was all over with no fuss.

Just a pity that so many in this situation are trying it on...

 

[Stigy]

Depending on the age of the individual, and assuming they've not yet travelled, I'll rip up the ticket and send them to buy an adult ticket. Bear in mind for adult on child ticket cases it's 99% of the time an easy Regulation of Railways Act 1889 offence (s.5(3)a) and therefore if you believe there's intent to use the ticket to travel, that's enough to report them for it, and if the Prosecutions team believe they can reasonably prove that intent, they could happily proceed to court. There's not many situations where the lesser Byelaw would be used, unless maybe a Ticket Office sold them the ticket and assumed they were a child? Even then, simply asking them when they realised it was a child ticket will often be enough to evidence a RRA 1889 offence.

 

[island]

Lucky that they left it at that in my opinion; wouldn't have been hard to prove an RRA charge!

 

[talltim]

The OP doesn't actually say whether the girl had actually travelled. Is there an offence of attempted unticketed travel?

 

[pemma]

I agree. This is one area where the passenger cannot possibly be unaware that she was not on a valid ticket.

I'm sure I actually agree with you there. Yes anyone travelling regularly by rail will know that the age limit for child tickets is 16 but in some instances e.g. dental treatment child is defined as anyone under 19 in full time education. I've never bought a child ticket from a ticket machine so don't know if they usually state anything about the age of 16 when you try and buy one.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

It's only idiots who insist they are 15 (some with beards, for chrissakes), or they want an excess, not a new ticket, that get put onto police / RPI's.

I was around 13 when I started growing facial hair but I did have the teenage spots to go with it at the time.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

There are occasions when someone legitimately holding a New Deal 50+ photocard (which entitles him/her to travel at child rate) is issued a child rate ticket where no specific New Deal ticket is available. In the days when I held such a photocard - in its distinctive bright green holder - an RPI would see me pull out the bright green New Deal holder and not bother to check my actual ticket

There's three New Deal programs of different lengths which entitle the person taking part to a railcard giving half price travel. The 16-24 program is the shortest and I think that's a railcard valid for 12 weeks, whereas 25-49 is for 26 weeks and I'm not sure about 50+.

 

[Oswyntail]

Couple of girls got on my train earlier. Friday night train, short skirts, low cut tops, heavy make up. "Can we have two child singles to Deal please?"

"No. No you can't."

How innocent! Are you really unaware of how young girls start dressing like that these days?

 

[sprite]

There is a group or page or whatever they are now called on Facebook entitled "Using your unger siblings railcard/buspass to get to town, and older siblings ID to get in places when there" and another, "being 15 for the bus to town, then 18 for the clubs".

 

[DJ_K666]

There is a group or page or whatever they are now called on Facebook entitled "Using your unger siblings railcard/buspass to get to town, and older siblings ID to get in places when there" and another, "being 15 for the bus to town, then 18 for the clubs".

That's great down here. Our Adult ticket age is 14...

 

[Mutant Lemming]

Did Jimmy Clitheroe pay full fare on the train ?