Advance ticket restrictions - “use station facilities”

[trainophile]

I know you are permitted to leave the barriered platform area with an Advance ticket in order to use station facilities. Just wondering whether this includes areas like the Grand Central shopping arena at Birmingham New Street. I don’t suppose anyone would actually know if you do, as you can put your ticket through the barriers to go to the ticket machines for example, but wondered whether using external shops to kill time (I regularly have a 1 hour + connection) is in the spirit of the rules.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Officially no, but the only staff I've ever heard of giving a monkey's about this are some of the Clapham Junction barrier staff.

 

[Merseysider]

I guarantee that you will have absolutely no problem whatsoever accessing the shops with an Advance ticket via Birmingham New Street. I must have done so hundreds of times over the years eg to get food in the Tesco.

And obviously, nobody will follow you out of the station to prevent you using shops external to the station.

Nothing realistically precludes you from doing so at other stations like Manchester Piccadilly etc, either.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I guarantee that you will have absolutely no problem whatsoever accessing the shops with an Advance ticket via Birmingham New Street. I must have done so hundreds of times over the years eg to get food in the Tesco.

And obviously, nobody will follow you out of the station to prevent you using shops external to the station.

Nothing realistically precludes you from doing so at other stations like Manchester Piccadilly etc, either.

Nothing precludes you doing it at any other station either, other than the muppets at CLJ.

 

[Merseysider]

Nothing precludes you doing it at any other station either, other than the muppets at CLJ.

Yes, that is the only station I remember ever having to argue the case at

 

[yorkie]

I know you are permitted to leave the barriered platform area with an Advance ticket in order to use station facilities. Just wondering whether this includes areas like the Grand Central shopping arena at Birmingham New Street. I don’t suppose anyone would actually know if you do, as you can put your ticket through the barriers to go to the ticket machines for example, but wondered whether using external shops to kill time (I regularly have a 1 hour + connection) is in the spirit of the rules.

I see no reason why anything within the station premises would not qualify.

Of course it's a hypothetical, moot point as no-one is going to follow you.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I see no reason why anything within the station premises would not qualify.

Of course it's a hypothetical, moot point as no-one is going to follow you.

I think the Clapham Junction (CLJ) argument is that the M&S Food isn't technically on the station premises, which it indeed isn't (the ownership boundary is a bit before that).

I don't, generally, like to use the phrase "jobsworth", but this kind of pettiness is exactly what gives the railway a bad name. As long as you use your booked journey in full on an Advance, who on earth cares about such technicalities of who owns a shop that is in the same building, let alone if you go out for a smoke or up the road to Maccy D's?

 

[trainophile]

On similar lines, I had cause today to go to the lost property desk, which is within the left luggage office at New Street. I had found someone's clothes shopping last Thursday, on a seemingly deserted platform, but didn't have time before my train departed to do anything with it. There was no guard visible on the train I got, so I decided the best bet was to bring it back on my next visit four days later.

I didn't know where the office was, but a chap at the first set of barriers directed me to pass through his barrier, which he opened for me without question, and then through the second set, and turn right. When I got to the second set the guy manning those was absolutely adamant that I had to show a valid ticket to be let through! I explained that I had been directed to the lost property office by another staff member, but this chap wasn't having any, and in the end I had to show him my totally unrelated ticket for a journey in half an hour's time, before he would let me through. The irony was that upon leaving the lost property room I had to return through the same barriers to access platform 5. If I hadn't been travelling anyway, and had just walked in off the street, I would have effectively been barred from handing in the item that someone has lost. It's no wonder tickets rarely work when they have been put through so many barriers at that station.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It would appear that the New St left luggage/lost property office is indeed "railside" at the A end, which as most of the building it's in is not "railside" is utterly bizarre.

 

[Merseysider]

It would appear that the New St left luggage/lost property office is indeed "railside" at the A end, which as most of the building it's in is not "railside" is utterly bizarre.

I agree; that’s completely absurd. I imagine that’s just where they had space to stick it.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I agree; that’s completely absurd. I imagine that’s just where they had space to stick it.

Manchester Piccadilly's is also "railside", but its location (down the side of the 13/14 travelator), unlike New St's, was determined at a time when the station was an "open station" with no intention to barrier it, so it's just an unfortunate thing.

All the others I know of are "landside".

 

[py_megapixel]

Manchester Piccadilly's is also "railside", but its location (down the side of the 13/14 travelator), unlike New St's, was determined at a time when the station was an "open station" with no intention to barrier it, so it's just an unfortunate thing.

Admittedly the travelator, and the luggage office, are still accessible without passing through the barriers, since only the easternmost platforms were barriered.

 

[yorkie]

I think the CLJ argument is that the M&S Food isn't technically on the station premises, which it indeed isn't (the ownership boundary is a bit before that). I don't, generally, like to use the phrase "jobsworth", but this kind of pettiness is exactly what gives the railway a bad name. As long as you use your booked journey in full on an Advance, who on earth cares about such technicalities of who owns a shop that is in the same building, let alone if you go out for a smoke or up the road to Maccy D's?

I agree; a jobsworth is someone who carries out their job to the letter (ie. correctly) but without applying common sense.

So denying a break of journey when the outlet is just beyond the station premises, on a ticket that isn't valid for break of journey, but where the customer would be travelling on the correct trains, is indeed the actions of a jobsworth.

In the case of Birmingham New Street, unless the passenger stated they were exiting station premises, this issue would not arise.

(anyone who wanted to force a walk to Moor Street could potentially do so, depending on the journey, by specifying via Moor Street and changing at Smethwick Galton Bridge or Leamington Spa, if appropriate for the journey being made)

 

[Bletchleyite]

Admittedly the travelator, and the luggage office, are still accessible without passing through the barriers, since only the easternmost platforms were barriered.

Most of the time (pre-COVID at least) a staffed barrier of sorts (staffed by Carlisle rentathugs who would recognise anything vaguely orange and ticket-shaped as a ticket) operates at those doors.

 

[317 forever]

On the August Bank Holiday 2014 I had an Advance ticket involving a necessary change at Leeds that morning. The inspector at the gates did allow me out to go to WH Smiths! (I wanted to buy Buses and Modern Railways then).