Advance ticket validity

[Jackoref]

Hi
I have an advance single booked for this afternoon.
The ticket is for Doncaster to Gatwick. I am booked onto the 1547 LNER Doncaster to Stevenage, then my itinerary has me down to travel the rest on Thameslink, changing at Farringdon.
It would appear to be quicker to remain on the LNER service all the way to King's Cross and then take the tube to Victoria and Southern service to Gatwick.
Is my ticket valid for that??

 

[yorkie]

It's advisable to stick to your itinerary, unless delays occur.

You can take any "appropriate" train for the "connection" part of your ticket, however this does not normally include reserveable trains. An exemption for Stevenage - London does exist though, so on this occasion you should be OK.

Next time, I recommend ensuring you are issued with an appropriate itinerary that meets your requirements. Some websites may not give you a choice, so I recommend using one that does.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Hi
I have an advance single booked for this afternoon.
The ticket is for Doncaster to Gatwick. I am booked onto the 1547 LNER Doncaster to Stevenage, then my itinerary has me down to travel the rest on Thameslink, changing at Farringdon.
It would appear to be quicker to remain on the LNER service all the way to King's Cross and then take the tube to Victoria and Southern service to Gatwick.
Is my ticket valid for that??

There is nothing on the ticket that precludes it and therefore I see no basis for the suggestion made by some people/companies that you must use non-reservable services for all unreserved portions of your journey.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

It's advisable to stick to your itinerary, unless delays occur.

You can take any "appropriate" train for the "connection" part of your ticket, however this does not normally include reserveable trains. An exemption for Stevenage - London does exist though, so on this occasion you should be OK.

Next time, I recommend ensuring you are issued with an appropriate itinerary that meets your requirements. Some websites may not give you a choice, so I recommend using one that does.

I see nothing that precludes a reservable train from being "appropriate", and nothing on the ticket that precludes the use of a reservable train. It's not as if it says "Valid on below reserved services, and unreservable connecting services"

 

[Jackoref]

Thanks for the replies.
Presumably the service I would be likely to have issues would be the LNER after Stevenage, so sensible to check it with train manager before then?

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Thanks for the replies.
Presumably the service I would be likely to have issues would be the LNER after Stevenage, so sensible to check it with train manager before then?

There is no issue likely - there is an official easement that permits it for this specific case, even if the rail industry's own internal rules (which aren't communicated to the passenger and therefore aren't enforceable) suggest that it isn't intended to be used in this way.

 

[yorkie]

I see nothing that precludes a reservable train from being "appropriate", and nothing on the ticket that precludes the use of a reservable train. It's not as if it says "Valid on below reserved services, and unreservable connecting services"

Did the OP book on LNER? Their website says

"Only valid on booked London North Eastern Railway services and required connecting services."

Then under more detail:

Advance tickets are valid only on the specific booked train but can be changed before departure of the first reserved service for a fee.

So I wouldn't be going down that line of argument.

This is a moot point though because it's LNER policy that it be allowed for Stevenage <> London (only; I strongly advise against doing the same from Peterborough <> London; this will result in problems!)

Thanks for the replies.
Presumably the service I would be likely to have issues would be the LNER after Stevenage, so sensible to check it with train manager before then?

LNER have a policy of allowing the use of their trains without a reservation, where appropriate, between Stevenage and London. So, on this occasion, I wouldn't bother.

But if you are keen to ask, when the Train Manager checks your ticket, you could say "could I stay on to King's Cross and walk to St Pancras?" and see what they say.

 

[Jackoref]

Did the OP book on LNER? Their website says

Then under more detail:

So I wouldn't be going down that line of argument.

This is a moot point though because it's LNER policy that it be allowed for Stevenage <> London (only; I strongly advise against doing the same from Peterborough <> London; this will result in problems!)

LNER have a policy of allowing the use of their trains without a reservation, where appropriate, between Stevenage and London. So, on this occasion, I wouldn't bother.

But if you are keen to ask, when the Train Manager checks your ticket, you could say "could I stay on to King's Cross and walk to St Pancras?" and see what they say.

Yep, booked through LNER.
Rather than walking to St Pancras and Thameslink, looks to be quicker to tube to Victoria unless I'm missing something?

 

[yorkie]

Yep, booked through LNER.
Rather than walking to St Pancras and Thameslink, looks to be quicker to tube to Victoria unless I'm missing something?

I'd argue that any appropriate service could be used between London Terminals and Gatwick. The fastest according to journey planners will be via Stevenage because the minimum connection time there is short.

Crossing London officially incurs a large time penalty, but someone who walks up & down escalators and knows where they're going (e.g. don't go the long way round via Northern ticket hall at King's Cross!) and is quick at walking can make a connection in about a third of the official transfer time. You can then get the first available GTR service (SN or GX branded) to Gatwick.

But in future, I really would recommend obtaining the right itinerary in the first place. There are sites that will allow you to specify up to 3 locations to avoid, not call at, or not to change at, in addition to up to 3 locations to go via, call at, or change at (with the option of additional interchange time too).

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

It is not a question of getting the "right" itinerary though - if the OP is reserved until Stevenage then that is how far they must follow their reservations. After that the ticket clearly says they should use "appropriate connecting services". If NRE recommends using LNER to get from Stevenage to London, and it just so happens to be the same train you're already on, I think that's perfectly "appropriate". I see no grounds on which an LNER Train Manager could complain the passenger had an invalid ticket if they did the same from Peterborough. They aren't off route. They haven't failed to comply with the conditions printed on the ticket. What is the issue then? Do they expect that all passengers book their own tickets and bear their booked itinerary in mind rather than looking at the ticket they have in hand?

Like I have said before - if the rail industry wants to enforce specific itineraries on non-reservable parts of Advances, they should make it much clearer to the passengers. It should not only be clearly shown when booking the ticket - e.g. "you must follow this specific itinerary", but it should also be printed on the ticket, as exemplified above.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

If you are planning to use the Underground to cross London, I don't think that your advance will work the gates - or that TfL staff will let you through. You will need a separate ticket /Oyster /contactless.

(Edited to strike out as apparently I am talking rubbish - apologies)

 

[yorkie]

It is not a question of getting the "right" itinerary though - if the OP is reserved until Stevenage then that is how far they must follow their reservations. After that the ticket clearly says they should use "appropriate connecting services". If NRE recommends using LNER to get from Stevenage to London, and it just so happens to be the same train you're already on, I think that's perfectly "appropriate". I see no grounds on which an LNER Train Manager could complain the passenger had an invalid ticket if they did the same from Peterborough. They aren't off route. They haven't failed to comply with the conditions printed on the ticket. What is the issue then? Do they expect that all passengers book their own tickets and bear their booked itinerary in mind rather than looking at the ticket they have in hand?

Like I have said before - if the rail industry wants to enforce specific itineraries on non-reservable parts of Advances, they should make it much clearer to the passengers. It should not only be clearly shown when booking the ticket - e.g. "you must follow this specific itinerary", but it should also be printed on the ticket, as exemplified above.

Perhaps they should tighten up the rules and make it clearer, but your proposals would be damaging for @Jackoref and others.

If you are planning to use the Underground to cross London, I don't think that your advance will work the gates - or that TfL staff will let you through. You will need a separate ticket /Oyster /contactless.

Why would it not work the gates? The route on the ticket is ✠LNER & CONNECTNS

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Perhaps they should tighten up the rules and make it clearer, but your proposals would be damaging for @Jackoref and others.

Why would it not work the gates? The route on the ticket is ✠LNER & CONNECTNS

I'm not proposing any changes, I'm just saying what the position is now! If the rail industry want to tighten things up then that is never going to be in the favour of the passenger.